Today, I sat down with Noble “The EQ Gangster” Gibbens, and we engaged in a hilarious exploratory conversation that sought to understand how you can foster a growth mindset by cultivating Radical Curiosity. Additionally, we were joined once again by Taylor “Griz” Clifton.

“We can’t choose to vanish the dark, but we can choose to kindle the light.”
– Dr. Edith Eger 

Highlights from the show include:

• The seductive illusion of arriving.
• On the heels of comfort is complacency, on the heels of complacency is discrepancy, and on the heels of discrepancy is destruction.
• Three things you can do to cultivate curiosity and grow a growth mindset in your home and at work.

If you would like to learn more about Noble’s work, you can check him out here: 

• His website is: eqgangster.com
• His LinkedIn is HERE.  
• Or on Instagram or Facebook. 

Books we discussed: 

• Radical Candor by Kim Scott
• The Choice by Dr. Edith Eva Eger
• Be Relentless by Jonathan Mayo

If you found value in the show please share it with someone you care for as well as subscribe and rate it!

Also, check out Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be waymakers HERE.

Do you want to learn more? Check out:

The Book: Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be WayMakers.

The Podcast: “Be Relentless Podcast”

The Fuel: Sisu Stamina, Performance Evolved

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Episode Transcript

00;00;08;26 – 00;00;35;26
Jon Mayo
Hello and welcome back to Be Relentless. Today we are joined by Noble Gibbon’s, who also goes by the IQ gangster. We discussed in explored how a radical sense for curiosity can yield a growth mindset and how that can serve not only in your personal life but in the communities in which you work as well. In addition to being joined by Noble, we were also joined by the Grizz.

00;00;35;28 – 00;01;06;24
Jon Mayo
And before we jump right into the conversation, I want to help prepare us for that which we explored by sharing an idea that was presented by Dr. Edith Eger in The idea is this one cannot smother the darkness, but we can kindle the light on the eyes. You’re saying the warm up was different?

00;01;06;26 – 00;01;10;19
Noble Gibbens
It’s awesome. That’s the way to warm up for a podcast right there.

00;01;10;22 – 00;01;30;05
Jon Mayo
Yeah. This is the first time we’ve recorded in the actual studio, not the studio, the Iron Range Throne room, which is the gym. So we did our murder mat session this morning since 530. It’s like eight now. And we’re sitting down to talk with, you know, Bill Gibbons, who we call Glacier, because that’s what it feels like when you’re crushing us.

00;01;30;08 – 00;01;31;28
Jon Mayo
And you’re the IQ gangster.

00;01;32;00 – 00;01;46;08
Noble Gibbens
Yes. So my daughter, I told my daughter, hey, they’re starting to call me the glacier at jujitsu. And she said, Is that because you’re old and white and slow? So thanks, kid, for just that.

00;01;46;11 – 00;01;48;17
Tayler Clifton
I guess that’s a different way to look at it.

00;01;48;20 – 00;01;52;13
Jon Mayo
And we also have Grizz back with us, which is a blast. So welcome, buddy.

00;01;52;14 – 00;01;54;06
Tayler Clifton
Thank you.

00;01;54;09 – 00;02;12;27
Jon Mayo
And what is this, the third episode, Brandon? That’s correct. Yeah. So we have a full four mikes today, which is excellent. Thank you for everything you do, Brian. Of course, I want to make sure to keep being grateful for that. But yeah, today we just have the opportunity to have some fun. Right. Sit down. Explore. You’re called the IQ gangster, which is interesting.

00;02;12;27 – 00;02;25;05
Jon Mayo
I want to hear about that. I was extremely honored to learn that you read Be Relentless. So that’s awesome to you. And yeah, we’re letting our heart rates drop from the last 2 hours of you thrashing us.

00;02;25;08 – 00;02;28;08
Noble Gibbens
Yeah, Me getting balled up by you, young guy.

00;02;28;09 – 00;02;38;20
Tayler Clifton
No, that was not what happened. Yeah, facts are facts. You kill this.

00;02;38;22 – 00;02;40;18
Jon Mayo
But what’s in your mind?

00;02;40;21 – 00;03;10;03
Noble Gibbens
So growth. Growth is is is huge. I was talking to one of my clients. He’s a soft guy, former cat guy. He was ac37 Sith guy and then was at CAG for a little while. And then that was many years ago. Now he is a deputy director for a big government organization. Just recently took it over and he’s like day 37.

00;03;10;06 – 00;03;34;23
Noble Gibbens
And he said he said, Man, no way. So my insights of my first in my first 90 days, I am I am shocked how fragile people’s egos are. Hmm. And I do executive coaching with executives and I would 100% agree with that assessment. And especially, I think I think that it I think it definitely resonates also with with senior leaders.

00;03;34;23 – 00;04;03;25
Noble Gibbens
Right. He’s in the he’s in the sea level suite kind of of this government organization. And I work with a lot of senior leaders like that. And I would absolutely agree. And I think that’s and I almost I wonder that’s why I love jujitsu, because in jujitsu it like immediate feedback is part of the culture. It’s part of the culture like, oh, snap, you know, you know, grizzlies got the dog lock on or whatever.

00;04;03;25 – 00;04;04;16
Noble Gibbens
You guys called that.

00;04;04;17 – 00;04;05;02
Tayler Clifton
Dogma.

00;04;05;03 – 00;04;47;15
Noble Gibbens
The dog bark, right? And it’s like I have that’s that’s immediate feedback for me. I need to tap, you know what I mean? Like it’s not like, oh, well, you know, it hurts my feeling like it’s that’s part of the culture jujitsu. And I wish there was a corporate equivalent or a leader equivalent because so many leaders hinder their growth, their capability, their their potential by by not having that not seeking out growth and feedback honestly versus like, Hey, John, I want you to give me I want you to give me feedback, which is code for I was in an organization for a number years.

00;04;47;18 – 00;05;02;03
Noble Gibbens
This is what happened. A lot of the guys would say, Hey, nobody, I want you to coach me. I want you to give me some feedback, which was code for Tell me what I want to hear. Hmm? Tell me I’m the man. Tell me I’m. I’m all that in a back, a sun chips. And I just think, man, you’re limiting.

00;05;02;08 – 00;05;18;00
Noble Gibbens
Anyway, so that’s on. My being is like. And then obviously, you know, for me, I always frame anything back to me like, okay, how open am I to feedback? How, how much do I seek it out? What are the last five questions I’ve asked somebody in my life to give me feedback on, or what am I intentionally pursuing?

00;05;18;00 – 00;05;38;07
Noble Gibbens
And growth in the area of growth, faith, family, fitness, finances, business, you know, whatever e, Q, whatever the areas are. So growth is a huge thing. That’s it’s really important to me, which again is I love jujitsu because like you’re never you’re as a purple belt. I feel like I feel like I’m just a seven year white belt.

00;05;38;10 – 00;06;02;18
Noble Gibbens
Like, like I still feel like, okay, I’ve got a few moves that I think I’ve got down fairly well, but 98% of jujitsu, I still feel like a white belt. It it’s like it’s like the ever elusive concept of mastery, which is another concept I love as well as the concept of mastery. And, and, and in jujitsu, you’re always learning.

00;06;02;23 – 00;06;24;05
Noble Gibbens
You never Chad Wright, who’s a black belt and you know, ah, my old professor, fourth degree Brazilian jiu jitsu, black belt, Marcelo. And he’s been rolling for 30 years and he’s still he’s still learning. And I just love that concept of like being a lifelong learner, you know, it’s a, it’s a huge thing for me.

00;06;24;13 – 00;06;55;29
Jon Mayo
Yeah. And real quick, shout out in love to Chad and Jada in the Myers because they’re going through loss and but the gym is starting to stabilize and grow and there’s peace and unity happening there. So just shout out to all the hard work they’re doing. We love you guys. Yeah. Growth. Everything’s like linguistics, right? You could boil things down to communication as one way of looking at the world and what’s beautiful about jujitsu as far as the candid feedback pieces, it is a radically candid form of communication.

00;06;56;01 – 00;07;16;19
Jon Mayo
Like there’s there’s no hiding who you are in the match. You’re exposed, you’re vulnerable, and you accept the constructive feedback of that move. Almost got me killed. This move almost broke me. And once you’ve done it for a little bit, I think that the natural trend is growing into the acceptance of seeking out the learning and being willing to lose to explore new moves.

00;07;16;19 – 00;07;43;05
Jon Mayo
Right. Which is which is the physiological parallel to what you’re seeing the absence of or describing as the absence in the corporate world. In the organizations that I’ve been working with, one of the things that we work to introduce very swiftly is radical candor. And thankfully there’s a beautiful book by the same title. I forget the name of the author right now, so I’ll make sure that’s in the show notes for us.

00;07;43;05 – 00;08;07;18
Jon Mayo
But or if you could help me run. But Radical candles are really gorgeous communication book and it kind of follows if if I had to boil it down to a single sentence, if you have to eat a poop sandwich, don’t nibble. And it goes into the seeking out in the same way constructive, candid feedback in being receptive to utilize that feedback to grow.

00;08;07;20 – 00;08;45;20
Jon Mayo
Right. And one of the things that’s refreshing is specifically in the last 18 months since I’ve joined the organization I’m with currently, the level of candor in our conversations and constructive feedback is insane on personal through professional levels of how this is helping or hindering the organization. And it comes from shifting that over tins window where at least in the experimentation I’ve done, when you have buy in from enough leadership to do it, then then you can start to shift that window and a simple qualification of, Hey guys, we’ve agreed to be radically candid.

00;08;45;20 – 00;09;05;23
Jon Mayo
We’ve agreed to just say it to the point where we put just say it on the wall. So in our meet in our conference room, it has just sat on the wall. So when when people are uncomfortable with providing feedback, pushback, or unpopular opinions or whatever is necessary to progress the business because of whatever personal insecurities or concerns of retribution or whatever the case may be, we’re humans.

00;09;05;26 – 00;09;21;26
Jon Mayo
If you just say, Hey, I’m just going to say it. And they point at the wall that gives them the freedom to then describe it, and then the conversation goes on. And that is like the beginning of the crawling towards an environment in which you are actually able to say, Actually, I disagree with you. I think it’s wrong.

00;09;21;26 – 00;09;43;10
Jon Mayo
Or Hey, man, I think you’re really messing this up and this is why it’s constructive and it’s born of love. It’s born of the desire for success. But it takes the courage to be uncomfortable in stating it right, Which brings us back to the growth that you’re talking about, because I think that it’s always by looking in the mirror.

00;09;43;12 – 00;10;12;16
Jon Mayo
If you want a culture of radical candor, it starts with you. It starts with the individual who desires it, right? And it makes me think of the best way. Or how does one build trust? By extending their hand and being willing to have it be singed? You know, if I’m able to say, Hey, are you willing to provide me constructive feedback, and then I hear something flowery, I’m like, okay, that sounds like you’re really trying to take care of my emotional state right now, but I really want to perform well.

00;10;12;18 – 00;10;36;28
Jon Mayo
Are you opposed to hearing feedback on what just occurred? From my perspective for you? And then you can kind of model it and then you can ask again, okay, given this, was that too bad? Was that helpful? Oh, it was helpful. Good. Now, what would you say about me? And it kind of gross, you know, not to ramble on too long, but I love these concepts of the intentionality of speech in action and intention bears into.

00;10;37;00 – 00;10;37;13
Tayler Clifton
The.

00;10;37;15 – 00;10;48;24
Jon Mayo
Cultivation of courage to speak constructive truths, which turns into growth as a cycle. And it works in this concentric circle from the self outward.

00;10;48;26 – 00;11;08;11
Noble Gibbens
A lot of people aren’t good at that. A lot of people for maybe as a result of maybe a lower IQ. And then also a result of I mean, we don’t have a culture in our in our society. We don’t have a culture of of providing that feedback. I mean, it takes social awareness to even give constructive feedback, right?

00;11;08;12 – 00;11;26;12
Noble Gibbens
It takes it takes it it takes it takes that awareness, social awareness and self-awareness to be able to do that again, not to be jujitsu, but but like, that’s again, why I love jujitsu is like I just ask, how did you what’s the dog barking? You show me what that is, and I know it’s not a personal attack.

00;11;26;12 – 00;11;50;08
Noble Gibbens
It’s like, okay, here’s how you do it. Like, you know what I mean? And it’s and in jujitsu, when you’re when you’re when you’re giving somebody feedback or coaching on a move, it’s it’s it’s not it’s not a personal I mean it’s for the application in your own rolling I just think a lot of people need practice in how to give you know, radical candor.

00;11;50;08 – 00;12;22;21
Noble Gibbens
And then I just a thought I had was something that I love is radical curiosity. Hmm. Do you have radical curiosity? Are you even do you even want to know? You know, and what what satiate that. What’s the smelling salts of your curiosity that you can become even more intentional? As one of my tattoos over here in in again, growing and developing, I feel like radical curiosity is the is the bridge between who you are and where you can be because you can give me radical candor.

00;12;22;24 – 00;12;42;23
Noble Gibbens
But if I’m not radically curious and you may even be right, like, Hey, nobody, you need to shift your hips a little bit when you’re doing this move to get out of this being regresses. Got you in and okay. Hey, thanks to you. Whatever. Right. And I think a lot of times too, our pride and ego are hindrances to growth in many cases.

00;12;42;23 – 00;12;47;21
Noble Gibbens
So that concept of radical curiosity, I think is another important concept that plays in.

00;12;47;23 – 00;13;08;27
Tayler Clifton
I think that’s one big thing that people don’t have, right? We we go to the gym and everyone checks their ego at the door. But, you know, I guess a lot of us probably have the same thing. We show up at our office or where we work. You know, a lot of people do jujitsu, probably check their ego and they’re probably open to feedback because, I mean, even in the gym, you can you can learn something from a white belt.

00;13;08;29 – 00;13;26;08
Tayler Clifton
I mean, you can learn from literally anybody, but you show up in an office setting or somewhere else and people are like, oh, well, I’m the I’m the test, right? I’m I’m here for a reason. But no, we can all learn from each other. So we need everyone needs to like you said, radical curiosity is. I like that.

00;13;26;08 – 00;13;28;01
Tayler Clifton
That’s really good.

00;13;28;03 – 00;13;50;16
Jon Mayo
Yeah, you’re right. Because it started with the question, right with you. Are you opposed to providing this feedback or what have you? I love the concept of pursuing the more beautiful question, which is kind of a fun way to bait into the necessity of that curiosity. Because you’re right, you’re talking to a wall if someone doesn’t want to hear it.

00;13;50;19 – 00;14;22;07
Jon Mayo
And I don’t think that the desire or I don’t want what I was sharing a moment ago to be perceived as the desire to like, you just are going around preaching to others, right? It’s more of the mutual exploration and it for myself, at least I start by asking to receive it because it seems to have served the people I’m with better myself, better if I’m willing to receive it first, even a couple of times for a while before they ever ask or are willing to receive, you know, a conversation like that.

00;14;22;09 – 00;14;50;17
Jon Mayo
I’m comfortable with that and I genuinely want to learn. So I agree that the Curiosity’s baked in and necessary. And then like if you look at that, at a state of economies of scale, what is the most beautiful question we can discover to pursue with our time? For myself, it’s how am I unleashing the potential? And that’s why the business that Kirk and I are buildings vision statement is actually a question How might we unleash human potential instead of some statement?

00;14;50;19 – 00;15;25;18
Jon Mayo
And then we have a mission statement that is more factual and how we’re going to get there. And then when you look at the book and everything, these things all tied together, right? But the it is that way, that fragility, that the ecosystem of if I’m on top, that is I would I would agree the cultural norm but I, I don’t think it’s as rooted and unshakable as it’s perceived by many at least from my like my experiences have been to go into new organizations more frequently and begin to shift the window.

00;15;25;18 – 00;15;46;23
Jon Mayo
Overton Window from point A to point B, shift the cultural norms and how we’re going to do things. And by it goes back to that vulnerability. The vulnerability seems to breed the curiosity that seems to create the opportunity to have more candid conversations, which creates the trust that allows for the cultivation of growth as on an organizational scale.

00;15;46;26 – 00;16;08;01
Jon Mayo
That all happens first in the micro with the individuals. But like if you walk into an organization, you see loss stiffness and you just start smiling like the way you grew people. Noble’s insanely positive. I watched you light Brandon up. He walked in groggy and and tired and stuff, and you lit up off. You’re off the ground and almost picked him up, hugging him.

00;16;08;01 – 00;16;12;05
Jon Mayo
And it changed the entire room. And how did that feel for you?

00;16;12;08 – 00;16;35;10
Tayler Clifton
I mean, it changed my entire morning. I was able to, like you said, wake up. I was able to change my negative attitude because home life stuff was going on. But it just honestly, it just made everything better. So thank you. Yeah. And you do that with everybody. I mean, yes, that’s how you treat everyone at the gym.

00;16;35;10 – 00;16;51;18
Tayler Clifton
Oh, big, big T, How’s it going? I’m getting a chiropractor adjustment from the hugs that he’s handed out. Like, it’s just everyone’s so much, like, Noble walks in the room, and I was like, Oh, Noble’s here. Yeah. Like, everybody’s all excited. Like, you can see eyes widened like, yay.

00;16;51;20 – 00;17;00;16
Jon Mayo
Hey, you give the most beautiful, low key, loving flexes on people I’ve ever seen Because you’re like, Oh, buddy, I love you. And you pick them up. It’s just like.

00;17;00;18 – 00;17;06;03
Tayler Clifton
I love you. But I can just remember that.

00;17;06;05 – 00;17;27;07
Noble Gibbens
It’s so it’s fun and I appreciate all that. I thank you guys for that feedback I saw. I’m a second generation hugger and I’ve actually done a podcast episode on on hugging and my dad is a big giant dude. He was six three and a half, six, four, 285 and an ER doctor. So you got the lab coat, neo stethoscope.

00;17;27;07 – 00;17;45;12
Noble Gibbens
And it can be pretty intimidating when you’re walking to the E.R. and you know, bring your kid to work day or whatever. So I was like 11 junior high and you know, he’s a K staying over there by the reception area where, you know, where they come in the E.R. and, you know, here comes his family crying, screaming.

00;17;45;12 – 00;18;07;09
Noble Gibbens
You know, most people have some degree of stress and anxiety when they walk into the E.R. This family was peaked and my dad comes around and again, kind of a big, intimidating looking figure. And, you know, this is 20 years ago. So, you know, you probably can’t do that nowadays, I’m sure, with all the legal stuff. But he would he would like I saw him.

00;18;07;09 – 00;18;30;03
Noble Gibbens
He embraced this lady that was freaking out and like she disappeared, this big giant guy. Right. And I and it was, you know, 11 years old. I’m like, you know, I’m trying to figure out kind of what’s going on here since she’s freaking out and she’s my big giant dad and she just kind of melted, like, physically melted in his arms.

00;18;30;06 – 00;18;49;11
Noble Gibbens
And it immediately calmed her. And I’m like, and then he’s like, Hey, you know, ma’am, you know, so how can I help you? Were you hurt or was it hurting or whatever? And and she was in a better headspace to even answer his questions based on the state of mind that he just put her in by a simple hug?

00;18;49;11 – 00;19;18;18
Noble Gibbens
And I’m like, what? Like just seeing that that visceral, visual, physical reaction to a very simple gesture. Safe gesture. And the other thing I’ve realized is about hugging is so I did we spoke my wife and I spoke in Australia a few years ago to we had about 1500 people in the in the audience. And the word had gotten out before we had gotten to Australia that I’m a hugger, like a legit hugger, right?

00;19;18;19 – 00;19;38;04
Noble Gibbens
And so it was the craziest thing. So we just got done speaking again to of 1500 people and come off the stage and there’s a line of 85 people and I’m like asking the Australian Jews, I came and what was going on. He was like, They’re waiting on a hug. And I’m like, Are you serious? Like, Yeah, do this.

00;19;38;09 – 00;20;05;07
Noble Gibbens
Is there one? So, so 85 people, dude, I went through and hugged the 85 folks. And what was fascinating, 80, 80% were young men and 50% were young women. And and as as I was kind of going through each hug because I do I don’t share this a lot, but I did on my podcast episode. So there’s something that I’m doing when I’m hugging because my hugs, as you guys know, a little bit longer.

00;20;05;07 – 00;20;21;02
Noble Gibbens
It is a little you know, it can get a little awkward for some people, but what I’m doing is I’m praying for them. So, you know, okay, God, man, thanks for this guy. Thanks to you. Thanks for Brandon. Lord, you know, just bless him today. Just real quick on my head. Right. Just real quick prayer with the hug.

00;20;21;04 – 00;20;45;12
Noble Gibbens
And I don’t know if it’s, you know, the vibes or whatever, but like the communication that I have gotten as man, I have never had positive male effect physical affection before that I felt safe. And anyway, it’s it’s been a really neat experience. It’s almost like a little side ministry, you know, of just being able to hug people and and really let them feel loved in that moment.

00;20;45;15 – 00;20;46;29
Noble Gibbens
That’s my goal anyway, you know?

00;20;47;00 – 00;20;48;24
Tayler Clifton
That’s beautiful.

00;20;48;26 – 00;21;03;04
Jon Mayo
Hey. Hey. You’re literally imparting peace and love with your intentions. Energy and action. That’s cool. Holy moly. So that incorporates into.

00;21;03;06 – 00;21;04;26
Tayler Clifton
Your.

00;21;04;28 – 00;21;29;22
Jon Mayo
Tagging business with being the gangster. You’re talking with this CAD guy? I’m just thinking through tying it all together, I shared my take on it, but I was curious when you’re going through that conversation, he’s lamenting or venting the what? I’m assuming the fragility of the egos of what he’s working with, especially given his background and you’re talking through in this coaching style of conversation with him.

00;21;29;24 – 00;21;33;18
Jon Mayo
Where do you take that, especially at the backdrop of the hugs?

00;21;33;20 – 00;22;01;04
Noble Gibbens
Yeah. So so, you know, again, for me what and what ties in your organization approach. I love that How might we unleash human potential And again it’s in my opinion, from my perspective, you have to cultivate a growth mindset, but optimize a growth mindset. You know, we talk about a growth mindset, but like what does a mastery level growth mindset look like?

00;22;01;07 – 00;22;33;20
Noble Gibbens
Not just like, Oh, hey, I ask questions every now and then or, you know, I’m so like, curious. But again, that radical curiosity going back to that concept and, and so what does a what does a radical growth mindset look like within an organization and it’s super challenging in his particular scenario is, I don’t know I’m sure you guys have met or maybe have engaged with or interacted with Government organizations are not typically known for their growth mindset.

00;22;33;22 – 00;22;35;00
Tayler Clifton
Yeah.

00;22;35;03 – 00;23;02;08
Noble Gibbens
And so, you know, when I was a government guy, I was an inventory guy for a handful of years. And so here’s a quick story. Then I’ll go back to the cat guy. When I was out process and I was an infantry captain in the 82nd and I was out processing, you know, leaving the organization and I had to go to Womack, the hospital there to out process was one of my stops and I’m there’s a line of soldiers and I just happened to be the first guy in the line.

00;23;02;08 – 00;23;24;26
Noble Gibbens
And there was, you know, probably six or seven of the soldiers in line with this lady’s desk. And she’s she’s, you know, at her at her computer knocking stuff out. And, you know, I’m there. So now 5 minutes go by, 10 minutes go by. Right. The line is getting longer. And and I’m kind of looking back and I she hasn’t even looked at me yet.

00;23;24;28 – 00;23;42;25
Noble Gibbens
She hasn’t acknowledged that I’m that we’re that we’re standing there. And I said, ma’am, excuse me. Can can you know, we’ve got a number of folks here just wondering, can I get an idea of kind of how long it’s going to be? She looks up. I’m not done with my solitaire game yet. You plant solitaire?

00;23;43;00 – 00;23;44;04
Jon Mayo
Oh, man. Right?

00;23;44;04 – 00;23;45;04
Noble Gibbens
Yes.

00;23;45;06 – 00;23;45;23
Jon Mayo
Yep.

00;23;45;26 – 00;24;07;26
Noble Gibbens
Just eight or nine or. I have no idea what level she was. Right. Government service. But there are a lot of folks in that. Or in fact, I just did a workshop two, three weeks ago to the Army Corps of Engineers. One of the divisions in the Army Corps of Engineers, 85 of their chiefs, 14th and 15 switch for the civilians out there.

00;24;07;26 – 00;24;34;01
Noble Gibbens
It’s like the lieutenant colonels and colonels, pretty senior leaders of the organization. And within this particular organization, within the Army Corps of Engineers, their senior leadership had gotten the worst score in the history of that particular department that they’re in. And the junior leaders, the junior senior leaders had gotten the best score in like ten or 15 years.

00;24;34;01 – 00;25;01;12
Noble Gibbens
So imagine you are you know, you’re you’re a high level leader being led by a very low IQ, low performance leader right then. And what how do you lead? How do you work? How do you optimize your performance, your human performance in that in that environment? And again, going back to growth in the cap game, you have to model it.

00;25;01;12 – 00;25;18;24
Noble Gibbens
Like you said before, I love that concept of modeling it. I can tell you, Hey, you know, John, you need to have a growth mindset grids. You need to have a growth mindset. But that’s that’s the lowest form of leadership, right? Is positional leadership. Well, I’m a higher ranking. I’m like, I’m a captain or I’m a major colonel, whatever.

00;25;18;26 – 00;25;36;07
Noble Gibbens
So you get you do what I tell you. I’m the boss, I’m the VP, I’m the president CEO of the company. No, dude, show me. What does that look like? What does a growth mindset even look like? And so so what I what I the first thing the first thing that I my goal in coaching is to ask good questions.

00;25;36;09 – 00;26;01;20
Noble Gibbens
So the most powerful form of realization is self realization. So if I know I may know the answer is a white pen or a blue pen. So I could say what you need is a blue pen. Hey, John, what are some ways that you can capture or document your thoughts.

00;26;01;23 – 00;26;04;27
Jon Mayo
My kid? Type it or write it.

00;26;04;29 – 00;26;36;07
Noble Gibbens
You see where I’m going. So I need to ask you questions. Now. The challenge from a coaches perspective is it’s okay to try out different hypotheses, but don’t marry one because you may not need the blue pen. Maybe you need the black pen, maybe you need the red pens, or maybe you need to type it. So as a coach, again, it’s okay to kind of test my hypotheses or different questions anyway, so it’s longer and slower to coach like that and develop leaders like that.

00;26;36;07 – 00;26;56;16
Noble Gibbens
But in my opinion, it’s more effective in the long run because you’re developing leaders who know how to think versus if I just tell you what to do right, you’re not going to think it’s what I told you. So I ask him some questions, but finally came to this. I said, Here’s some ideas for you that you can do to model growth for your organization, because he he’s a big growth guy, too.

00;26;56;18 – 00;27;15;18
Noble Gibbens
We’ve worked together for about two decades now. And and so he’s accountable. You know, I said, okay, guys, hey, let’s you know, we’ve got this online university that they’ve got access to with their with their organization. So, okay, how many guys are going to jump in and start start knocking out some of these courses with me and with his senior leaders?

00;27;15;18 – 00;27;43;27
Noble Gibbens
And again, these are these are senior leaders, this organization, you know, that his group is and it’s crickets. Lonnie Daddy, nobody said a thing. He’s like, okay, guys, look, I know I’m the new guy. I’m 37 days in like deputy chef, right? Where the fajitas. What am I what am I missing here? Is the course bad like? And one guy’s like, Well, hey, boss, you know, really, the reason is, like, we’ve all been doing this for 20 years.

00;27;43;29 – 00;28;06;27
Noble Gibbens
Like, we know what to do. Why would we? Why would we? Why would we study more when we are like, I could tell you exactly what he’s arrived. Right? It’s it’s the fixed mindset. And so so I said, okay. I said so. So my my buddy said, So dude, what, what how do you how do you work on that with that with leaders who think they’ve all arrived?

00;28;06;27 – 00;28;31;20
Noble Gibbens
And I said, well, again, ask but ask questions. But let me just get to the point. So I said every meeting that you have with them, you share one area that you’ve grown personally and one area that you’ve grown professionally and and then one question that you’re pondering that you’re currently chewing on as a leader and like legit, like what are you working on now, bro?

00;28;31;27 – 00;28;55;23
Noble Gibbens
And again, personally, hey, I’m trying to not get as angry with my wife when we get in arguments or I’m trying to be more patient with my children because I have a short fuze. So that’s something that I’m working on this week. And professionally, I am learning some new safety procedures and how to be better in my safety field or whatever the thing is, right?

00;28;55;25 – 00;29;25;05
Noble Gibbens
And then the question that I’m currently chewing on is, you know, how is how can I increase my radical curiosity and then and then continue the meeting? And I said, do that for a month in your meetings and then you let them know just so you guys know, next month. So we’re June. So July 1st or August 1st, maybe because there’s some personalities that take longer to process that they can’t just absorb and change immediately.

00;29;25;05 – 00;29;48;07
Noble Gibbens
They need some thinking time. So again, give them some time, give them maybe a month or so to kind of wrap their nugget around it and watching you be vulnerable, vulnerability based trust. There’s a whole nother concept called the Five Dysfunctions of a team. Patrick Funzioni Right. And he talks about the the, the the discrepancy between positional based trust versus vulnerability based trust.

00;29;48;09 – 00;30;08;10
Noble Gibbens
Your goal is vulnerability based trust. So you’ll be demonstrating. I told my buddy, you’ll be demonstrating vulnerability based trust with your organization and then let them know again, give them a month to chew on it afterward. So you’re modeling it, but you let them know ahead of time. Okay, starting next month, I’m going to go around the room and we’re all going to do this.

00;30;08;12 – 00;30;35;12
Noble Gibbens
So this month is going to be just me. Next month we’re going to go Grace, you’re going to be up and then you and then you. And we’re all going to answer those three questions. How are you going personally, professionally, and what’s one question you’re chewing on? And over time, as they see that month of you being vulnerable and really working on stuff versus the the the this, the seductive, the seductive illusion of arriving.

00;30;35;17 – 00;30;36;19
Tayler Clifton
Mm.

00;30;36;21 – 00;30;59;29
Noble Gibbens
And that that that cozy that cozy seduction of comfort on the heels of comfort is complacency. On the heels of complacency is destruction and modeling. Oh it’s, it’s okay to not have all your poop in a group. It’s okay. That’s totally fine. You know, Brandon’s like, Hey, dude, had some some stuff going on. Like, well, who doesn’t relate with that?

00;30;59;29 – 00;31;27;18
Noble Gibbens
You can impact people with your mountaintops or you can. You can I’m sorry. You can impress people with your mountaintops or you can impact them with your valleys. Everyone can relate with that. She prescribed been married for just my anniversary was yesterday. 27 years in fact in my in my post I did a post and I said thank you, Bay, for the the brutally beautiful journey that we have been on for 27 years.

00;31;27;23 – 00;31;28;26
Jon Mayo
Congratulations, by the way.

00;31;28;26 – 00;31;54;01
Noble Gibbens
Yeah, no, thank you. Because it’s there’s been some amazing times and then there’s been some time just been knockdown, drag out. No, not physically, but like, emotionally it’s been it’s been no joke. But if you again, if you if you don’t have that growth mindset, that radical curiosity, you’re going to be stuck like Chuck with your spouse, with your like, but you’ve got a model that you go with your you got to show your kids, Hey, man, Little John, man, I’m so sorry.

00;31;54;02 – 00;32;16;00
Noble Gibbens
My daughter, man. Babe, I’m so sorry. I’m more I’m so sorry for responding the way I did. Will you forgive me? Right. There’s a concept called r-fr repentance, forgiveness, restoration. So I’m sorry. I’m more for overreacting. When you did this or when I said this, will you forgive me? And then I shut up and wait for her response.

00;32;16;03 – 00;32;33;06
Noble Gibbens
Instead of trying to defend and. Well, you know the reason. No, no, no. Just shut up and just wait for response. And it’s either yes or no, because they might not forgive you in the moment. And then the restoration pieces are more next time. What I’m going to do is I’m going to count to five so that I it’s going to help me so I don’t overreact.

00;32;33;08 – 00;32;35;26
Noble Gibbens
Right. So a restoration plan, how to how can I restore.

00;32;35;26 – 00;32;36;27
Jon Mayo
Put into action that.

00;32;36;27 – 00;32;40;26
Noble Gibbens
Trust. Right.

00;32;40;28 – 00;32;45;11
Tayler Clifton
I love you. I think that’s the appropriate response.

00;32;45;14 – 00;33;09;19
Jon Mayo
This is an incredibly refreshing conversation and the there’s a wow with my bride that I was really wrestling with the frustration of feeling like I always had to be the one to repent or ask for forgiveness or restore after an argument. And I realized over time, this is my belief, at least in how I have decided to proceed.

00;33;09;19 – 00;33;32;25
Jon Mayo
And our marriage has done much better. We just celebrated ten years, which is which is fun. A third of the way along the journey right. But I needed to demonstrate better strength and leadership in my own home and man up and pick up that mantle and lead in the same way that your buddy who is CAG, who’s now leading this organization.

00;33;32;25 – 00;33;54;12
Jon Mayo
I go a month in the desert of just sharing before require them to do it. I needed to be ready to go year two years if necessary, before being more firm in my request for reciprocation, because who knows what damage I’d done preceding that by my lack of awareness in my defensiveness and my unwillingness to bear up under that weight.

00;33;54;17 – 00;34;15;13
Jon Mayo
Right. So it just it’s so clear to there’s just something beautiful to me that made me want to circle that back to it starts in the home and it starts with the self. And then if you do that well, you have the opportunity and the responsibility to steward that work in a larger skill economy. And you don’t know where the opportunity’s going to start.

00;34;15;13 – 00;34;34;09
Jon Mayo
You may get a start that practice at work, but the opportunities always at home and you just have to swallow that bitter pill to do it there. And I think that it also starts with your relationship with your self, because the self dialog that can occur can be incredibly negative, right? And if you don’t, there’s like two versions of self at minimum, right?

00;34;34;12 – 00;34;50;11
Jon Mayo
Maybe many more in the goals like unity over time, perhaps. But to treat yourself with respect in that dialog and to put those parameters up in the same way, I think that can kind of work and be massaged even in your own inner dialog as you’re working towards peace and health.

00;34;50;14 – 00;34;54;26
Noble Gibbens
Okay, So, so this is a super heart for me.

00;34;54;26 – 00;34;57;19
Tayler Clifton
So yeah.

00;34;57;21 – 00;35;14;25
Noble Gibbens
I’m getting fired up. So, so yes, like conceptually I dig what you’re saying, like a shovel in application. I was sucking like a Kirby vacuum analogies.

00;35;14;27 – 00;35;16;24
Tayler Clifton
Goodness gracious.

00;35;16;27 – 00;35;42;04
Noble Gibbens
It’s all the echoes I got. This is all the years when I was the 82nd at Ranger School. So. So for me, like, for years, dude, I had super self-hatred, self-sabotage, self condemnation. And dude, I’m a I’m a serious Bible guy, right? Boom. I got my, you know, my Bible upstairs here, my 7-8, my spiritual 7-8 year, or I call it my spiritual.

00;35;42;04 – 00;36;07;14
Noble Gibbens
I’m to 40 Bravo. You know what I mean? Got the old double dose of holy Ghost right here. And and so. But I hated myself, hated myself. And, you know, I’d read all the I hear the Tony Robbins and the John Maxwell’s and the Jim Collins and the Ziegler’s and all the big the less Browns and all the great motivational, inspirational leaders out there just believe in yourself.

00;36;07;16 – 00;36;23;00
Noble Gibbens
What? Freaking a tweedy, really genius. Don’t you think that if I could just believe in myself, I would like just stop. Just stop getting tapped by, Chad, Just stop. Like, why are you getting tired by.

00;36;23;02 – 00;36;24;08
Jon Mayo
Why am I being smothered by.

00;36;24;08 – 00;36;30;11
Tayler Clifton
You? The alternative is just go to sleep right? Why are you trying?

00;36;30;13 – 00;36;53;28
Noble Gibbens
Right? And it’s like it’s. That’s not how it works. It’s not just stop getting submitted by Chad is not how it works. It’s a process and a journey. So for me, before I could even embrace, you know, promises from God’s word in my case, because that’s my my faith background or like you shared before, I could have a better relationship with myself.

00;36;54;00 – 00;37;16;14
Noble Gibbens
I had to figure out where that self-hatred and self condemnation and self-sabotage was coming from. I had to figure out in my IQ stuff, emotional intelligence stuff. I call it the origins. You know, you see the origin story of the superheroes, right? Of all the different. What’s the origin story of your emotional dysfunction? Hmm. So list your emotional dysfunctions.

00;37;16;14 – 00;37;56;08
Noble Gibbens
And I had on a slide. When I do presentations on relationship and leadership, I show at least I’ve got like at least 35 dysfunctions that I had have had to work on. And that was just off the top of my dome. I’m sure I had trouble of more and I had to figure out what were the emotional origin stories of of of a lot of my emotional dysfunction and what I have discovered for years now of practicing my emotional fitness every single day is that is 50% of the healing process is figuring out what is the emotional origin story this late.

00;37;56;09 – 00;38;31;17
Noble Gibbens
So I did a post on Facebook recently and LinkedIn on, you know, May was Mental Health Month. And so I just had this post. My wife she has a podcast called Filter to Her Brain. So she teaches critical thinking and and in which is also in you know in high demand right now I would buy a period or should be in high demand right now and she did a real on the man I don’t even remember it so some logical fallacy because that’s what she talks about as logical fallacies and it has gone viral.

00;38;31;20 – 00;38;54;06
Noble Gibbens
And neither, you know, neither one of us, we’re like small time social media people, Right? You know, a handful of followers here and there, a handful of views per video. This one just yesterday hit 100,000 views for her and for us. That’s like gangster. And and there was this lady who reached out to her saying, hey, you know, do you do any coaching this to my wife?

00;38;54;07 – 00;39;16;00
Noble Gibbens
Do you do any coaching? I really need help with some some some intense stuff I’m going through and and my wife looks this lady up and she’s like this celebrity actress, like on TV and stuff and movies and stuff. And that’s not our people. We don’t roll like that, you know? I mean, that’s fine. I just we don’t have that influence or whatever.

00;39;16;02 – 00;39;19;21
Noble Gibbens
And so I’m like, it’s definitely a prank. Someone is.

00;39;19;24 – 00;39;20;13
Tayler Clifton
Meeting stuff.

00;39;20;17 – 00;39;39;28
Noble Gibbens
Your body or something like that. And so anyway, long story, longer, the lady said, Hey, you know, here’s here’s my cell number. Can you can you call me? And so, you know, my wife’s like, well, I’d like to have my husband on because he actually is the coach. I just do critical thinking stuff. And my my husband does the coach coaching on it, on emotions and stuff.

00;39;39;28 – 00;39;54;14
Noble Gibbens
And so and it would be taught and it’s for real deal had no idea that that she was she was lower than a pregnant and and going through a lot of of very intense issues and she she had to.

00;39;54;17 – 00;39;55;02
Tayler Clifton
You know.

00;39;55;02 – 00;40;16;29
Noble Gibbens
It’s you know it’s you have to realize man is what’s the underlying stuff that’s causing like I can tell a lot of times the IQ of the people I roll with just by how I roll with them, how they roll with me. Right. What’s their vibe, What’s their energy, what’s their is their anger that’s in there is their aggression in on uncontrollable aggression in there?

00;40;16;29 – 00;40;45;29
Noble Gibbens
Is there passive passivity right in there. Right. What’s you know, you can tell a lot about somebody when you roll with them. And so when you when you help somebody discover what those emotional origin stories are of their dysfunction, they can begin to start working on and having the awareness of where where that is coming from. Now, that’s half of it, right?

00;40;45;29 – 00;41;12;09
Noble Gibbens
The other half is you also need the tools. You need. How do I do an armbar? How do I do? How do I do frames? You know what I mean? So there’s some fundamental tools that you also need that because for me, what I was even got when or my therapist, Oh man, this is another money one. My therapist, you know, five years ago I went, I went and he’s like, Hey, nobody doing this.

00;41;12;09 – 00;41;28;09
Noble Gibbens
I mean, I’m I’m sucking, bro. I’m, I’m, I’m doing I’m bad news bears and he and and I said, man, can you give me three things on how I can get out of this valley? And he said, Well, you said, Why? And I’m like, Well, what do you mean why? I’m like, It’s a valley. I’m getting tapped out my life right now.

00;41;28;09 – 00;41;46;18
Noble Gibbens
I need how do I get out of this submission that I’m in? He said, Well, it kind of sounds like you’re framing it as a bad thing. I’m like, Yeah, McFly, I’m getting tapped out by it is it is a bad thing. He said, Why is it a bad thing that he was challenging my paradigm of a valley?

00;41;46;21 – 00;42;03;09
Noble Gibbens
And he said, Noble, what if God is trying to teach you something in this valley? What if you’re supposed to learn a lesson and you you get out of the valley before you you learn a lesson, and guess what? You’re going to get bored again because you didn’t learn how. Oh, I keep getting my arm out there. Maybe that’s what’s causing me to get out, right?

00;42;03;12 – 00;42;14;11
Noble Gibbens
And we don’t do that with life. A lot of us are not, again, reflective enough, which is another question. Oh, I’m so fired up reflecting. Right. A lot of us really know how to reflect how you even. Oh, I’m getting.

00;42;14;14 – 00;42;15;22
Tayler Clifton
Keep going.

00;42;15;25 – 00;42;34;23
Noble Gibbens
The other thing is like this is how bad? So this is a consequence of how bad I hated myself and I hated myself so bad. Dude, I, I for decades, bro, I did not ever want to be or experienced. Silence.

00;42;34;25 – 00;42;35;16
Tayler Clifton
Hmm.

00;42;35;18 – 00;43;06;27
Noble Gibbens
Which affected my sleep because, like, okay, crap. That means I have to close my eyes. Well, for that time between I close my eyes and I actually fall asleep. It’s some period of time that I’ve got to be in my own thoughts. What? I don’t want to spend time with me like. So I would do music. I would do it, keep it TV or anything to distract myself so that I wouldn’t have to reflect because of how scared I was of spending time with myself until I discovered what some of those origin stories were of How did I get this way?

00;43;06;27 – 00;43;13;14
Noble Gibbens
Why am I so scared of myself? Why am I? You know what I’m saying? And when I traveled.

00;43;13;17 – 00;43;44;15
Jon Mayo
It was beautiful. Given given that travel, though, I’m very curious to think what you thought about. And you go, Please feel free to drink. Normally we’re. We’re here having bro talk and everyone will understand if we’re drinking. Right? So I just don’t want to be uncomfortable. But I’m curious to see with how your journey has been, how your walks bend towards that health from the avoidant side on to being alone because of the things that you need to work through that you weren’t ready to allow me to destroy my thought.

00;43;44;15 – 00;44;06;00
Jon Mayo
Just one quick second. Have you come across the choice? Oh my goodness. So the choices by Dr. Edith Eger. Edgar, depending on where you are in the world. And she was a Holocaust survivor, similar to Dr. FRENKEL, but she was a child essentially when she went through she’s a teenager. He was in his later twenties, and I’m only two thirds of the way through.

00;44;06;00 – 00;44;31;10
Jon Mayo
So typically, I don’t like to bring things up if I’ve not finished them. But it’s been such a beautiful, timely book to read in this given time that I’m walking through currently. And I was just reflecting upon when things get really rough, I start, I find the need to meditate more, so I end up investing a lot more time just sitting and thinking, which I don’t like, but it’s like the computer has to process, right?

00;44;31;13 – 00;44;58;04
Jon Mayo
And it’s been just this beautiful juxtaposition of the struggles I’m walking through compared to what she was walking through. Not in the means to diminish what I’m going through because they’re not comparable, which she arguably I’ll take mine a thousand times over and it wouldn’t be healthy for it. Wouldn’t it be fruitful for me to then just discredit mine so just for clarity, that is not what’s occurring, but it is helpful to have a balanced counterbalance to what you’re walking through.

00;44;58;06 – 00;45;18;23
Jon Mayo
That perspective of, okay, what I’m going through is not like I got teared up putting extra rice away after supper because I’m wrestling with some things pretty heavily and I was doing this rice. My kids are full and they’re going up to safety in their bedroom. And compared to a lot of what she was explaining and walking through, that didn’t occur.

00;45;18;25 – 00;45;38;28
Jon Mayo
But she had this extraordinary avoidant response to her past, her hurt her because, you know, dysfunction oftentimes is bred from hurt and then denial. And then if I just can ignore it and make it go away, then I can live. But that just causes it to grow in the chasm gets bigger in the the energy to climb past, it gets more costly.

00;45;39;00 – 00;46;08;17
Jon Mayo
And she ended up reading Doctor Frankl’s Man’s Search for Meaning. And I said that right? That is his book. Yes, I Was a Man Thinketh is what I was concerned. I was mixing up. But yeah. And then that started a chain series in her life of growth and pressing in to the problem right. Which comes which is why I wanted to come back to is this beautiful little boomerang.

00;46;08;17 – 00;46;26;02
Jon Mayo
Back to the topic earlier you did say one minor boomerang because it’s just fun. I don’t want to lose you. I think there’s value to it. You said you can’t for something in the valleys. You can either share from the valleys of peaks something along those lines I just heard her say in her. And in the book we’re talking about the choice.

00;46;26;04 – 00;46;44;16
Jon Mayo
She said, you can’t smother the darkness, but you can kindle the light. And I was just like, That is so beautiful. It just lit me on fire. You put a speck of light in a room. The darkness cannot get rid of it. But there’s nothing you can do to diminish the darkness. Aside from bringing in the light, all that seemed to me very powerful.

00;46;44;19 – 00;47;15;06
Jon Mayo
But a lot of what you’re talking about right now right? The avoidance, the not even wanting to have the silence in your mind during that time from when you’d close your eyes to falling asleep, is the avoidance of facing and beginning to wrestle with, grapple with, sit with whatever it is that is being avoided. Right. Which is, you know, if the if the antidote, the cure is to press in, then if the obstacles away we must be way Makers IV, which is the subtitle of Be Relentless, the book.

00;47;15;09 – 00;47;53;04
Jon Mayo
I’ve been curious to see from your perspective in what you’ve done in in walk through and how you’re coaching, what you think about that book. And please feel free to be constructively critical. Yeah, I welcome the feedback publicly because my hope and prayer is that I’ll be in the position to further spread this this book and allow it to be a message of hope that inspires action and change and is a counter-narrative without even acknowledging the narrative in many ways of the the victimization and helplessness that I think is being experienced.

00;47;53;07 – 00;48;09;05
Jon Mayo
But I’m going to come across critics and I know you guys love me, and I’m going to come across people who want to destroy me and destroy the work. So I’m very open to the entire spectrum of thought on it and how it relates to your work and everything we’re talking about. And we don’t have to stay long on it.

00;48;09;05 – 00;48;13;06
Jon Mayo
But I was just curious because it seems like a natural point where they’re coming together.

00;48;13;06 – 00;48;38;26
Noble Gibbens
Yeah, that’s that’s excellent. And it was a great book. So, so so we all look at life through the lens of our personality. You can’t not look at life through the lens of your personality. You don’t look at life through the lens of my personality. I don’t look at life to lens, right? So, so that that’s that’s a that’s a that’s a perspective.

00;48;38;26 – 00;49;15;02
Noble Gibbens
And you it was awesome And and Mike and I, I listen to it two or three weeks ago so and I like to take notes and stuff. So normally I have my notes in front of me. So this is just off the dome for me. What, what I, what I got from that is, is take action and which, which is, which is an awesome, awesome encouragement.

00;49;15;05 – 00;49;49;29
Noble Gibbens
And also I also got to to not be afraid of the obstacle, whatever that obstacle may be and you share and I appreciate you shared some some very vulnerable stories in there but how you took action and and and made some some really monumental life decisions based on where you were at mentally and emotionally at the time that have led to some transformational results in your life.

00;49;50;01 – 00;50;20;27
Noble Gibbens
There are phases of people’s journeys now. Now, maybe not everyone is going to is going to have some of the life experiences that I had. There were so for two years of of my life, once I left the military, I had just become financially independent at age 30, had a pretty strong six figure income, didn’t need a job anymore, a 9 to 5 job anymore.

00;50;20;27 – 00;50;56;08
Noble Gibbens
I just left the military and and I went into two years of of hardcore suicide all phase of nonstop 24. As soon as my eyes popped open fantasizing about it, going to sleep, dreaming about it for two years straight. When you were in that state of mind, I was. I was living in an altered state of reality. And in that phase, I was I was paralyzed.

00;50;56;10 – 00;51;29;05
Noble Gibbens
So in that in that season that I was in, I felt anyway, I felt physically, mentally, emotionally unable to take action in in that season that I was in. Now, by God’s grace, after two years, for some reason, no idea why. Literally it was it was two years almost to the day I woke up the next day. And like I literally told my wife, Mike, I’m like, Did you see the color outside?

00;51;29;05 – 00;51;44;20
Noble Gibbens
Like, there’s color like, there’s like, that’s a red car and that’s a blue car and that’s a green car. And she’s like, Dude, what are you smoking? And I’m like, I just never notice color for the last couple of years. And then I’m like, I’m like, And then I’m like, Do you hear that? She like, No, I don’t hear anything.

00;51;44;20 – 00;52;22;08
Noble Gibbens
So I’m like, Yeah, there’s you hear the silence? Like, there’s actually silence. For however many years I had just heard the voices, right, that I had, you know, you I think you had mentioned alluded to early on the conversation. I had a monster, monster negative playlist that I would just running on on repeat on autoplay and and yeah and try to it’s tough to unleash your optimal human performance and potential when you’ve got a monster negative playlist that you are a waste of skin and a waste of oxygen and you know P.O.S. and you know what I mean?

00;52;22;08 – 00;52;56;25
Noble Gibbens
All that stuff. And so and so again, by God’s grace now, for the next decade, I was still in a pretty decent depression, but I wasn’t in. I was periodically come in and out of the suicidal stuff, but it wasn’t as intense as the two years. And so for some people, what I have found is some people, if you tell them, Hey, just believe in yourself or just take action, for some people that works for other people like me, that have some super intense emotional strongholds in their life and some of it’s can be spiritual as well.

00;52;56;27 – 00;53;22;15
Noble Gibbens
That has to be worked through because because I was in an industry, I was in a motivational self-help industry for for 20 some years. And they were it was all it was. It is a whole world of Band-Aids. Just do your affirmations every day. Just visualize. Just get your dream board ready. Just dream bigger. Just right is all but none.

00;53;22;21 – 00;53;41;09
Noble Gibbens
That was all the lipstick. Oh, put the blue lipstick and the red lipstick and the pink lipstick. None of it was like. It’s like the COVID stuff the last few years. Right? And not to get political, but there’s some you know, this is some interesting observation that some people have had, but. Right. You know, you’re going to get to wear your mask or you’re all going to die.

00;53;41;10 – 00;54;03;03
Noble Gibbens
You got to get the vaccine or you’re all going to die. Nobody said, but maybe you want to lose some weight. Maybe you want to work out, maybe you want to eat healthier because those are also contributing factors. No, nobody. The government wasn’t saying that media wasn’t saying that. A lot of daddy nobody. Right. Well, that’s kind of interesting for me, right?

00;54;03;06 – 00;54;24;21
Noble Gibbens
What’s being said and what’s not being said. And in some of these issues, you got to look under the hood. You can’t just change the paint on the car. Sometimes you can just change the pain in the car maybe for young guys, you know, and I’m not saying you guys because but there are not many people that leave their childhoods without emotional injury.

00;54;24;23 – 00;54;51;11
Noble Gibbens
99% of people, their childhood with with emotional injury. And most of us don’t ever go back and and heal those areas that cause injury out. In fact, I just saw a psychologist just talk about this other day and I’ve experienced in my own life and also with a lot of the executives and leaders that I work with a large percentage of high achievement comes from a place of trauma.

00;54;51;16 – 00;55;16;01
Noble Gibbens
Mm hmm. The reason that many people are successful is because of their dysfunctions. Right. And so for me and I was as a I was a people pleaser addict for four decades, hard core people pleaser, addict for four decades. And it wasn’t until so and guess what I did Well, financial, independent, age 30, spoke all over the world to tens of thousands of people, you know, West Point, Ranger School, all the stuff.

00;55;16;08 – 00;55;39;22
Noble Gibbens
But what I realized was that was all because I was a people pleaser addict. Well, John’s going to like because I’m a Ranger tab, maybe Christian like because I went to West Point, it was all the smoke and mirrors and I finally won. So four or five years ago, I wanted to finally succeed, achieve and perform, not out of emotional neediness, but out of a place of this is who God’s called me to be.

00;55;39;23 – 00;55;40;12
Jon Mayo
Abundance.

00;55;40;17 – 00;55;42;24
Noble Gibbens
Out of a place of abundance and peace.

00;55;42;26 – 00;55;46;06
Jon Mayo
You can never stop pouring out if the cup is overflowing.

00;55;46;09 – 00;55;46;20
Noble Gibbens
Love.

00;55;46;20 – 00;56;00;09
Jon Mayo
It is just what comes to mind there. And what I’m hearing from you and I fully accept what I think I’m hearing. I would like to it is this book is going to touch people who are in a position to take action, who are ready or yearning.

00;56;00;14 – 00;56;01;00
Noble Gibbens
That’s great.

00;56;01;02 – 00;56;26;28
Jon Mayo
In in what you’re saying is it’s going to be a difficult or a turn off or not the time or not the right message for those who aren’t. And funny enough, I had to accept that when I wrote it because I realized I was trying to be all things to all people. And I realized that I couldn’t coherently think through what I wanted to say.

00;56;27;00 – 00;56;51;14
Jon Mayo
So as part of the process was like, okay, well, what can I say? It’s like, what the most authentic, genuine thing I can do is represent how I’m walking through this. And because what I realized was I’ve been blessed to rise fairly swiftly in different organizations I’ve served and to lead with authority and stuff. But as I can do those things and I can be a subject matter expert in those areas and I can do that with authority.

00;56;51;14 – 00;57;19;07
Jon Mayo
I’ve no problem doing that. But I want this to be different. I want this to be an invitation. I want this to be communal. And I was wrestling with, how do you have these types of conversations? And we started the podcast initially. Despite that, I said, Well, I figure it out as I grapple with in real time. And then with the book in the the turning point for me that helped to fight the imposter syndrome and everything else was I’m not a coach, I’m not a I’m not trying to be a coach.

00;57;19;07 – 00;57;50;09
Jon Mayo
I’m not trying to be a teacher or a professor or a doctor, any of these things and espouse my wisdom. That’s not the goal. The goal is all of us as our heartbeats are in this great wild adventure called life. And we’re all working to journey well and find our way home. What if I could just extend my hand and invitation to journey with others and build a community of people who desire to create value and learn to lead maximized lives and want more and just simply want more.

00;57;50;16 – 00;58;05;26
Jon Mayo
And then we can get on fancy with the language and have fun with it from there. But who just like, I don’t want to be miserable, I don’t want to be asleep, I don’t want to waste my life, I want more. And that’s where that moment of awareness in the book is so critical and the breaking of the default cycle to the intentional cycle.

00;58;05;26 – 00;58;26;23
Jon Mayo
These concepts of something’s happened. You’re sick and tired of being sick and tired. You want something to change. That’s where that’s what launched this for me and that’s what I could speak to authentically in what I found. What is interesting is, is walking and in my prayer is that what’s been placed in my eye to share the same faith?

00;58;26;23 – 00;58;53;26
Jon Mayo
I don’t speak about it often because I like it to be asked about and authentic because I’ve seen it use of swiftly as a disservice, you know, right off. But what’s been a conviction for me is that the book, though, being built over the course of years and in the darkness and the signs were all of a sudden come to a flash of recognition to be able to serve and be stewarded, to help inspire hope in action in others.

00;58;53;29 – 00;59;11;13
Jon Mayo
But I had to I had to let go of the fact that I can’t be all things to all people, which actually was very freeing because when I spoke to it, I could authentically do. I was able to immediately focus on what I could do and I was able to trust all of us have different functions in this life.

00;59;11;13 – 00;59;34;10
Jon Mayo
Somewhere there’s a noble who’s going to be able to help those and speak to from their own authentic experience what it’s like to walk through being paralyzed by that negativity and pain and emotion. And what if we partnered? You know, what if our messages could create unity together and instead of combat? Because like so many people think that values like this scarcity thing.

00;59;34;10 – 00;59;57;11
Jon Mayo
No, it’s it’s created. So, like, what if you could speak to the ones who are emotionally paralyzed and avoidant and I could speak to the ones who just had this climactic moment of awareness and don’t want to go back to sleep. And what if together that creates these pillars, that propagates momentum and further growth and health and light, you know, and that’s been beautiful.

00;59;57;17 – 01;00;00;15
Jon Mayo
And that that idea to me is inspiring and.

01;00;00;15 – 01;00;21;19
Noble Gibbens
Beautiful 100%. And and the reality is you you can’t or shouldn’t write a book that is not coming, in my opinion, coming from a place that you’re going through. I feel like that is the most powerful book that you can write is the book that is written from your own journey and experience. Does that make sense and what book is for all people?

01;00;21;19 – 01;00;44;25
Noble Gibbens
Well, you know, I’m saying, yeah, right. You know, so so but you know, any other kind of leadership book or develop a book, that kind of thing, Like there’s some that I did like a, you know, like a back home. There’s some that that I that I don’t use. And write. And so I think and it was just like, like the place that I’m at now, bro.

01;00;44;26 – 01;01;09;11
Noble Gibbens
I’m on it like me on tacos right? And so I think, I think it is very powerful book based on where somebody is and if they’re there needing that nudge, that kick in the rear end, it’s an excellent it’s an excellent. MA Again, you model with your own life because that that’s the kind of stuff that, that pisses me off is like, you know, hey, these are the ten things that you need to do to change your life now.

01;01;09;12 – 01;01;28;03
Noble Gibbens
No, I haven’t done those, But. But you definitely do these ten to change your life. Like, No, this is what I have done to change my life. Okay, now, bro, now you immediately got my attention so that if I do have a question, I can call you up, write you, email you. Hey, jump in chapter three. Hey, bro, when you were doing this, walk into this.

01;01;28;03 – 01;01;42;16
Noble Gibbens
Can you help me? Help me. You know, based on your experience, how did you walk through that? This right. Like I can I can further ask your question, but if it’s ten rules on, here’s what you do. It’s your life. But I’m not doing it. Dude, your message is meaningless for me.

01;01;42;18 – 01;01;59;25
Tayler Clifton
Sorry. It’s like watching a Jiu-Jitsu instructional. You’re trying to learn to move. You get some of these people that just go through the move and they want to explain it. They go into all these different details, but you never see it in practice. But then you get the people that will show it move and they’re like, Here’s how this person did it in competition or this person or I myself did.

01;01;59;25 – 01;02;05;10
Tayler Clifton
You know what I mean? It is showing the way, showing how they made the way through that obstacle.

01;02;05;10 – 01;02;06;21
Jon Mayo
In a live.

01;02;06;24 – 01;02;09;02
Tayler Clifton
In in a real world situation. Yeah, it.

01;02;09;02 – 01;02;29;19
Jon Mayo
Actually hits back exactly because a lot of things sound good in theory and look good in theory. But then when someone’s actually trying to rip your face off back right here, go. It didn’t work and, you know, done. And I’m doing right. Which one of the greatest gifts of that book in whatever conviction compelled me to search it out at the time that I did, which didn’t make logical sense.

01;02;29;19 – 01;02;53;27
Jon Mayo
But that’s fine. Is it has been the biggest mirror to myself since writing it. And like I alluded to now, I unfortunately have to be more vague for a while longer than I typically would like to be. But I’m working. I’m walking through some some conflict, some issues, some disagreements that need resolution. And there’s a old adage, if you can’t change situation, change yourself.

01;02;53;27 – 01;03;14;23
Jon Mayo
And then I don’t know if this is added to that adage, but I’ve added to it. So I hope I’m not stolen credit from anyone. But it’s if you can’t change the situation, you’re forced change yourself. If you’ve changed and are continuing to change yourself and you will continue to change yourself in the situation still does not enhance to a tolerable level, then you ought to change the environment.

01;03;14;25 – 01;03;34;08
Jon Mayo
And now no point abdicate the responsibility to continue working on yourself. But there has to be a point of do I know when to fold them in this environment and move on so that I can have the impact that’s required. And then in another environment where the soil may just be more fertile, someone may not be trying to cut the trees down that you’re planning.

01;03;34;11 – 01;04;13;26
Jon Mayo
Right. And thinking through that right, going back to the kindling, the light or smothering the darkness concept, I realized I was very I was being very angry at some things that I think are wrong. And I don’t think that anger is misplaced. But my emotional state in response to what was occurring was misplaced. And I realized that there’s this beautiful balance, at least for I believe, for those who have faith that when things are abundant and going well and skyrocketing, rocketing and there’s momentum, then I have that talk on my time, my energy.

01;04;13;26 – 01;04;49;10
Jon Mayo
I get to steward that. I have that responsibility. But there’s a distance or absence from that feeling of supernatural peace and contentment comes from walking through dark places when you’re a believer. So you have to be more intentional to not lose sight of the manner of leaving and the ideal that you’re pursuing when stewarding. And then the reverse of that is when the wolf is at the door and the times are uncertain and you’re looking at a precipice that you may need to leap into because that is where the piece is leading you.

01;04;49;12 – 01;05;20;14
Jon Mayo
You have chaos around you. The momentum is not does not appear at this time to be working in your favor. However, there is the greatest sense of presence, aliveness, connection with something greater than yourself that allows for the the propelling and movement forward in that darkness in a way. So it’s like there’s everything’s on black and white, there’s different flavors of beauty and there there’s something beautiful to being able to be in a season of abundance and st that well.

01;05;20;14 – 01;05;42;29
Jon Mayo
There’s also something beautiful to being able to find this a different level of contentment, peace and joy in having been made with the requisite skills to walk through that darkness and steward it well and you’re just drinking from a different source in that time that provides a different strength. So it’s kind of like there’s always this ebb and flow.

01;05;42;29 – 01;06;03;15
Jon Mayo
There’s, you know, however you want to prescribe it, the yin and yang of light and darkness. There’s always if you’re rich in this hand, you may be lighter in the other, but what if the cycles supposed to be a transfer between those two things over time? And when when that kind of clicked through this through? Because I’ve been need to meditate more so that I’m sharper, not making mistakes during the day.

01;06;03;17 – 01;06;39;09
Jon Mayo
When that hit me, it was like this beautiful correction on myself. Whereas like you for a surge or not, not complain about surgeries, you ought to lean into the fact that you’ve designed and pointed your life to become a way maker that propagates other rainmakers, that makes and creates the ability for other people to convey. Because literally part of my morning meditation every day is I will choose to do the other things that the things that others won’t, so that I may do the things that others can’t, so that I can stand in the gap and empower and equip others to join me and do the same.

01;06;39;11 – 01;07;05;10
Jon Mayo
It’s like if that is who I’m creating myself to be, I had better be careful not to do anything short of rejoice and be at peace and engage with everything I am when I’m in the moments that are creating the next level of who I could be. And in starting the very responsibilities, no matter how weighty they may be, because I am getting my request fulfilled.

01;07;05;13 – 01;07;26;25
Jon Mayo
I wanted this. I wanted to be capable of stewarding this. I wanted to be the one who could handle this so that it could create the opportunity for others. And that just gave me peace. I may be going on long about it, but it’s just it’s very interesting furthering of the work. It’s like, well, if the obstacles, the way I must be a way maker, this is literally what I’ve designated my life to being.

01;07;26;28 – 01;07;27;28
Jon Mayo
Right? What a gift.

01;07;27;29 – 01;07;49;29
Noble Gibbens
Yeah. No, absolutely love that. Love that concept. And what’s been so. So how I can relate with that is and how that resonates with me is what’s, what’s been interesting in my jujitsu journey is the roles that I have found myself enjoying the most or with the hardest opponents.

01;07;50;02 – 01;07;54;10
Jon Mayo
Because I’m so disappointing to you.

01;07;54;12 – 01;08;23;05
Noble Gibbens
Because that reveals my strengths and my weaknesses better than rolling with an easier opponent. And it’s been funny because I’m self-awareness has not been. Self-awareness is a very new concept for me and being over the last four years, I’ve been slowly working on my self awareness and I’m trying to pay attention to how I feel after each role.

01;08;23;07 – 01;08;46;11
Noble Gibbens
And and then when I leave and I’m doing my reflection, when I’m writing down all my different roles and who I roll with and stuff, and you know how I keep track of that stuff. And as I go through each name, I pay attention to my emotional state when I write down that name to see what emotions pop up when I roll with John, when I roll with careers other than pain and fear and terror.

01;08;46;16 – 01;08;47;09
Noble Gibbens
Right?

01;08;47;11 – 01;08;50;04
Tayler Clifton
And so he’s feeling our pain and terror. That’s Yeah, it is.

01;08;50;11 – 01;08;53;01
Jon Mayo
You’re so empathetically into.

01;08;53;04 – 01;08;53;10
Tayler Clifton
You’re.

01;08;53;10 – 01;08;55;23
Jon Mayo
Missing what you’re feeling.

01;08;55;25 – 01;08;59;06
Tayler Clifton
For what’s happening to us. Right?

01;08;59;06 – 01;09;32;17
Noble Gibbens
So so you know and man as I go through it, it’s like the heart of the roles are it’s like, it’s like this. It’s It’s Ranger school, right? It’s, it’s I, I, I, I mean, that was that was a super suck fest. But it, it, you know, you it was it’s like the harder the, the harder the, the obstacle better you feel about yourself, you know, how do you how do you build resilience.

01;09;32;17 – 01;09;59;07
Noble Gibbens
I talk about emotional agility and leadership. Agility and resilience is do hard things you want to increase your resilience, do hard things. And and that’s why, again, so thankful for jujitsu, because Like for us, doing hard things is a way of life for a jujitsu person like that. You know, there are no in one sense right there, are no easy roles, right in one sense.

01;09;59;09 – 01;10;19;20
Noble Gibbens
And for in another sense, if I have a say, let’s say with a white belt or a new white belt, that there’s not a division one wrestler or not a Grizz or know, I mean, you know, not white men any more, but like, you know, that are animals. It’s like, you know, like I just told you, I taught a class last night at the gym or the night before at the gym.

01;10;19;22 – 01;10;38;05
Noble Gibbens
And one of the things I did was, okay, we’re going to do a three minute roll and no one can breathe your mouth. Everyone has to breathe nose, which means you can’t out role your ability to breathe through your nose. And if you start breathing through your mouth, that means you’re rowing too hard. You need dalot back down.

01;10;38;08 – 01;10;56;13
Noble Gibbens
And everybody rolled calmly. And I said, How did you feel? And a number of like, Man, I just felt like I was more aware of my energy. I felt I was more aware of my body and I was more aware of my opponent’s body, my bro. Like, you know what I mean?

01;10;56;15 – 01;11;12;02
Jon Mayo
I’m so grateful that you even provided me. Hey, do you ever breathe your nose? Because I was like, Oh, I must be off and through my mouth like a sound, like a pregnant sound. So I was like, so grateful for that feedback. And I think Chad told me once, closer to him, eyes and roll, and he made me close my eyes.

01;11;12;02 – 01;11;43;12
Jon Mayo
And for like two months I closed my eyes, rolled in, and did a similar fact. I wish in in hindsight and what I’ll pay forward shamelessly robbing you of that and, well, repurposing and paying forward because that’s the correct language is close your eyes and breathe through your nose. Because when I like with some of our buddies who are learning how to flow role and learning how to be more body aware and doing those things, if you do both of those going to force you to be so hyper intentional and aware of what’s occurring because now you can’t breathe through your mouth and your eyes are shut.

01;11;43;12 – 01;11;49;17
Jon Mayo
So it’s all feeling and an internal looking. So I’m, I’m grateful for that.

01;11;49;21 – 01;12;11;20
Noble Gibbens
Well, the earlier the other thing I would tell you is to to try to not use your strength. Hmm. Do you use a truckload of strength? And you’ve got it in truckloads. And it’s not that you can’t use it. The less you use, the more your technique will grow. Yeah. Which is the reason why for seven years now, Because I’m bigger than most people.

01;12;11;22 – 01;12;38;26
Noble Gibbens
I start on my back, which forced me not use my size. Now, if I could sweep somebody, okay, then I’ll play some offense. And especially since you guys are animals, like, okay, I’ll do offense, but with other folks, I mean, I’ll do offense too, but I will always let them at least do something with their game for their own practice, but also so that I don’t I don’t want to rely on my size I what can I, can I defend against you animals.

01;12;38;26 – 01;12;58;01
Noble Gibbens
Right. Without trying to, you know, get on top of you and stuff and let me see how long I can last in defense against Gray as against John right before they tap me or whatever. And so, you know, the the it’s just something to chew on right. Can I use my strength less and rely more on technique?

01;12;58;02 – 01;13;05;05
Jon Mayo
So from our roles this morning, just a shameless request for myself from earlier this morning. Does it feel like there’s still an overreliance on strength?

01;13;05;05 – 01;13;05;20
Noble Gibbens
Yes.

01;13;05;24 – 01;13;10;13
Jon Mayo
Oh, man. So for those who don’t teach jujitsu, I’m hemorrhaging.

01;13;10;15 – 01;13;13;10
Tayler Clifton
You’re getting hit with the. Hey, John, you’re strong.

01;13;13;13 – 01;13;18;19
Jon Mayo
There’s few things that hurt more. Thank you for that radically candid feedback.

01;13;18;21 – 01;13;39;13
Tayler Clifton
Grace, please. So what thing I’ve found rolling here at John’s place is when his kids come out in the morning and they want to roll. That’s the perfect time to work. Pure technique because you you cannot use your size or you will hurt them. You cannot use your strength or you will hurt them. So and they they think it’s funny.

01;13;39;13 – 01;13;49;04
Tayler Clifton
They’re like, stop, you know, fists and hips because, you know, I’ll let them get them out and I’ll fists and hips and skinny jeans out and and then I stop in the hate it, but I’m not using strength at all.

01;13;49;04 – 01;13;49;27
Noble Gibbens
That’s right.

01;13;49;29 – 01;13;54;07
Tayler Clifton
And it’s been it’s really helped my my game there.

01;13;54;11 – 01;14;18;22
Noble Gibbens
That’s why I love rolling with teens and that’s why I love rolling with the ladies because they are so much more technical than me, because they can’t rely on strength, you know what I mean? And so and so again, like my daughter is one of those. She is super technical. And, you know, there’s a there’s a number of ladies and teens that that are at the gym that are like, I’m like, wow, there’s so much more technical And I like roll them because it’s like, wow, okay.

01;14;19;00 – 01;14;43;13
Noble Gibbens
Just feeling somebody who is more Chad is another one. I’m incredibly technical and I love feeling that technicality, you know what I mean? Because I mean that ultimately that’s why jujitsu was made, right? Is is so that the smaller, weaker opponent could stand a chance and potentially submit or, you know, reduce the threat of a larger, stronger opponent.

01;14;43;20 – 01;14;44;06
Noble Gibbens
You know what I mean?

01;14;44;08 – 01;14;48;24
Tayler Clifton
I’m going to throw mine in. Jon’s mindset in here real quick. Strength is technique.

01;14;48;27 – 01;14;49;13
Noble Gibbens
Well.

01;14;49;16 – 01;14;52;17
Tayler Clifton
Yes, you got to know when to use it, though. That’s the thing. Yes.

01;14;52;17 – 01;15;15;27
Jon Mayo
Yeah. Yeah. Because I was as even thinking through, I, I refuse to allow myself to defend without like a be defensive after receiving feedback. Right. Without properly tuned through it to analyze what it is that I’m through from the feedback. So with your feedback just now, just to be, just to peel back the onion of what was going through my head as I was chewing on it, listening to the conversation 15 years ago.

01;15;15;27 – 01;15;36;18
Jon Mayo
Okay. And this is how I went. Well, of course I’m going to hit Nobu with everything. I have skill, speed, strength, because you are the glacier. You’re the mountain, you’re a monster and you’re skilled. And if I do anything stupid, I die. So that’s what happened. So it’s like, okay, I’m going to give you everything I got. So it’s like, well, maybe what it is.

01;15;36;18 – 01;15;57;21
Jon Mayo
I was like, Well, maybe that is, but let’s keep digging into what the constructive feedback is. Maybe that everything I got is too strength oriented still, and that’s the issue. So yeah, I was hit with everything speed, technique, everything. But the biggest of the three you saw is speed, technique. Strength, let’s say, was the strength, the technique, not the speed.

01;15;57;23 – 01;16;21;08
Jon Mayo
So as the feedback is still valid, despite the fact that rolling with the kids or Jade or these other people where there’s no strength and it’s exercised, that’s like, well, don’t accept the self, let the sting hurt more for a minute. Sit in the pain more and see what else can be revealed. Let the fire you. So I was like, okay, I’m going to ignore the fact that I know I can flow what value is there.

01;16;21;14 – 01;16;45;25
Jon Mayo
And this is very rapid and early in the thing because I want to continue chewing on this indefinitely. But but, but, but the bottom line of where I’m at is, you know what? Especially with the combo meals and stuff, it’s going to be interesting to have the rapid gearshifts if we say, okay, we are not allowed to muscle each other after we do the heavy deads for the next week, we have to breathe through our nose for the next week.

01;16;45;29 – 01;17;08;20
Jon Mayo
Let’s force ourselves back into the gear of flowing, because let’s just assume, and I think that you are in many ways absolutely correct. Okay. I’m to strength emphasized right now. It’s out of balance. It’s like I accept that. Cool. Now we can work through that and enhance the game for it. And even that in my attempt in sharing that, just really to restate my intention is not to defend myself.

01;17;08;21 – 01;17;34;00
Jon Mayo
No, I’m accepting the feedback in saying thank you for it and I’m going to put it into action because it stings like a mother. But that tells me even more so that it’s probably accurate, right? Upset. It’s like, why is it stinging? And until I can and like you were asking, where’s the origin story of the dysfunction I have to figure out root out until I’ve identified the entire reason that it stings to hear that.

01;17;34;02 – 01;17;56;15
Jon Mayo
And once I’ve understand that it may be even more complex than just jujitsu, it may be the relationships in the gym, in the community. It could be even the splits in the relationship hurts that have happened in the gym and what I’ve had to do to create some level of stability and friendships there. So it’s like it’s amazing how something like this can be so interconnected to something bigger and like, frankly, I hope there’s value in this because I’m going to keep running for just a second.

01;17;56;18 – 01;18;25;03
Jon Mayo
But frankly, with the gym splits that occurred in the pain and the loss in the stepping up and the stepping into the gap and violence and protectionism and everything else, it was a lot for a couple of years, right. Like this is our community at distressed and in chaos and it and it’s a tight community. And one of the things that I’ve always had a home gym but creating the Orange Murder Club and having all this, it produced the independence and freedom.

01;18;25;03 – 01;18;43;13
Jon Mayo
And I’ve spoke with Chad about this. I was like, I love you and I love this gym, and I will continue to come to this gym, but I will not give up my freedom. We’ve created this independence. Whatever happens, the independence will stand. And even it’s interesting because that had to be a flex, that had to take strength and courage.

01;18;43;13 – 01;19;00;11
Jon Mayo
I had to do a thing were known for being the big guys. We’re known for being able to be aggressive and rip people’s faces off. So there’s even the identity that flows into it, despite the fear, the fear of loss. So when you look at all of that and then you’re a monster, like you have the strength to smash me right?

01;19;00;13 – 01;19;22;18
Jon Mayo
So I’m using my defense, my strength, mostly defensively or trying to use mechanical advantage. But then to hear you say your you’re going way too strong, it’s like, okay, that stings. How many layers, though, and how much learning could there truly be if I truly explore it and I won’t continue to analyze it here. But, you know, it seems so appropriate given everything we’re talking about of that’s such a good example.

01;19;22;26 – 01;19;30;11
Jon Mayo
It seems to me an appropriate, accurate example and timely of how we can choose to respond to this type of feedback.

01;19;30;13 – 01;20;32;12
Noble Gibbens
Bro, that was a masterclass in externally processing feedback that was that was freaking beautiful Journey that you just took us all on in how to productively healthy process that is is only going to make you more of an assassin on the mat and and change your life. But just how you modeled that bro the questions that you were asking and talking through and working through that dude that that was that was that like I’m done.

01;20;32;15 – 01;20;59;19
Noble Gibbens
That was incredible, dude. That’s that’s why I showed up was to be able to see that in action and how you process that the world would be a better place if we could all take feedback like that and process like that. Not, not from a place of judgment, from either you or me, but from a place of curiosity and growth.

01;20;59;22 – 01;21;25;01
Noble Gibbens
That was radical and curiosity right there. That was you just modeled radical curiosity. And and to see somebody that has a degree, a level of self-awareness for you to walk me in the well, maybe the reason that it does sting is because there’s something like all of that. That was a beautiful relationship between radical curiosity and self-awareness, bro.

01;21;25;01 – 01;21;32;17
Noble Gibbens
And and I think the end result is going to again, it’s just going to be a ten X version of yourself. I mean, that was that was amazing, dude. Thank you.

01;21;32;24 – 01;21;40;09
Tayler Clifton
Will. And there was the radical candor to I mean, he was just beautifully externalizing everything you were thinking in your head.

01;21;40;14 – 01;22;16;00
Noble Gibbens
And I want it. So I wanted to share this based on the previous before we got into that little back and forth. James one. So from the basic instructions before leaving Earth, write your Bible, My brethren counter all joy when you fall into various trials and get leg locked by Grizz, knowing the testing of your faith and dog bars produce patience, but let patience have its perfect work that you may perfect and complete lacking nothing.

01;22;16;03 – 01;22;34;18
Noble Gibbens
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But let him ask us in faith with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind for let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord.

01;22;34;20 – 01;22;58;02
Noble Gibbens
He is a double minded man and see what he does. But the first section there counted all joy. When you get submitted by Grizz or Big John. Right. And that’s not a that’s not a common emotion when you’re getting balled up by you guys. But that’s not like, Oh man, I’m so joyful right now. Right? And I think that example of how you model, you modeled those few verses there do, that was incredible.

01;22;58;04 – 01;23;16;26
Jon Mayo
Well, thank you guys for the opportunity to walk through that together. Right. And there’s two really, I’m so grateful you brought this up because you brought back to mind something I really want to do. I thought it was important for us to explore earlier, but the first one is it was scary is like doesn’t feel like the right word, but it was unsettling to do that publicly.

01;23;17;04 – 01;23;36;19
Jon Mayo
Right. To to walk through that. We’re all like bearded, looking at each other and fairly stoically. So it’s like, okay, there’s not a lot of reading I can do on how well this is being received, which is why I even said, Hope there’s value in this. I’m just going to run another minute because my read was a mirror.

01;23;36;19 – 01;23;58;25
Jon Mayo
It wasn’t disapproving, nor was it approving as neutral. So it’s like, okay, this is my hope if it’s not, it’s almost over, so bear with me, right? And then to hear the feedback, it’s like, okay, I did not have that read at all going through it. But I, you know, for that feeling of necessity, conviction, vulnerability, whatever, to do it because it felt important, you know, I thought it was the right thing to do, the correct thing.

01;23;58;28 – 01;24;21;15
Jon Mayo
But the reason I show that is it’s not going to be comfortable and that’s okay. And that’s okay. It doesn’t it’s not supposed to feel comfortable to do the correct thing all the time, which brings back to the kind of old voice that struggles in triumphs. You do? Hey, just believe you’re great, right? You’re like, Oh, fuck off.

01;24;21;17 – 01;24;45;11
Jon Mayo
So how do you counter all joy? I like it’s so appropriate given what I’m working through right now with my family and what would you’re working through with our interactions with the world? Because the family is strong. It’s not within our house. It’s time to realize that I had the wrong response, which you were talking about earlier. I wasn’t counting it as a joy.

01;24;45;13 – 01;25;05;03
Jon Mayo
I was angry. Right. And once I realized what we talked about earlier, oh, I wanted to be away maker. What is this the opportunity to be precisely what I sought out to be perfect and joy and peace started to flood in and my response started change entirely. And you’ve probably been watching it. You’ve seen me at work the last few days.

01;25;05;03 – 01;25;28;20
Jon Mayo
Yesterday was different, I imagine. Yeah. So yesterday, when I was able to realize my father in response, I need to be joyful and I need to continue in my mission to be an agent of unity, peace, love, freedom in life, and to create value. Because this is an opportunity that I should respond with joy because I have the strength in the equipping to handle it.

01;25;28;22 – 01;25;49;14
Jon Mayo
That transition, the reason I share that it’s in my mind, the work comes into the intentionality through all these other things. How do we shorten the cycle from unawareness to awareness so that intentionality can begin to be pointed in the correct direction? What do you guys think about that fire?

01;25;49;16 – 01;25;50;17
Noble Gibbens
That’s that’s that.

01;25;50;17 – 01;25;52;10
Tayler Clifton
Is that is where.

01;25;52;10 – 01;26;16;14
Noble Gibbens
I go, bro, which is fire for those who know our and that that is one of the million dollar questions right. Is how do you grow your self awareness and there are a lot of tools that there’s a lot of tools and I talk about a lot of those tools on my podcast, but I will tell you that the majority of leaders that I have an opportunity to work with are not self aware.

01;26;16;21 – 01;26;17;08
Jon Mayo
Mm hmm.

01;26;17;14 – 01;26;41;19
Noble Gibbens
And here’s the other thing, too. That was beautiful about what you modeled for us, is that because of your self awareness and maybe not solely because of your self awareness, a lot of other factors, you’re comfortable in your own skin. Well, you knew that wasn’t a personal attack from Noble to John on you know you are a waste of oxygen like no here’s a tip or a thought that may or may not even be accurate.

01;26;41;19 – 01;27;11;06
Noble Gibbens
Right. You may disagree after you’re thinking reflecting like, No, I don’t think I, I think I used the right amount of straight. Well, that’s fine. Like it’s one perspective from, you know, one guy who’s been rolling for seven years. Maybe maybe there’s a shoe fits where if it doesn’t, that’s fine, too. But because you’re comfortable in your own skin and again, partly due to your self awareness, you were able to take from the angle of what it was intended to be taken at versus, oh my gosh, nobody hates me.

01;27;11;06 – 01;27;33;01
Noble Gibbens
It’s worse. That’s what I would have done, you know, five years ago when I was emotionally needy and and the people pleaser addict, I would have I took I took any type of even if it was true. NOBLE Your breath stinks. NOBLE You’re you know, you’re you’ve got a third grader wrapped around your waist that you need to lose, you know, by getting healthier or whatever.

01;27;33;04 – 01;28;06;06
Noble Gibbens
And in and I would still like, oh, my gosh, that means I’m a loser and I’m a pussy instead of like, what is there truth to it? What can I learn from this? Why am I getting defensive? Why did it sting? Maybe there’s a reason, like again, what you did so beautifully. And now that I have got some self awareness and spent some time with myself and realized the capital T truth about me and now able to accept it because I’m emotionally healthier now I can take feedback, if you like, noble du jour, you’re too aggressive or not aggressive enough or too whatever, right?

01;28;06;06 – 01;28;20;17
Noble Gibbens
Whatever the feedback is now it’s like, okay, man, that’s great. John. Like, you know, you know, where did that come from? Can you help me better understand, like, what led to that thought? What, you know, help me understand. Okay, well, how can I maybe right now I can be curious and I can model what you did as well.

01;28;20;17 – 01;28;34;01
Noble Gibbens
Now. But four years ago. Absolutely. That was that was I was black belt level curiosity and and and growth that you modeled for Sarah Brown I really, really appreciate it.

01;28;34;04 – 01;28;50;17
Jon Mayo
Well, thank you. And you know, it’s not done like I can feel until there’s more I’m going to chew through on it in the bottom that comes from it’s like, goodness gracious. All he said is you were using too much strength. It’s like, well, you’re missing the point because this is just a matter this it just happens to be fruitful for me.

01;28;50;21 – 01;29;07;21
Jon Mayo
But it’s also just an example of someone you know, one of the things that’s unique about jujitsu and why I try to not prophesy, I’m evangelize for it all the time is like, Hey guys, join it. Come join the cult brand. And, you know, like all of that, it’s a hashtag, not a cult. Don’t worry, you’ll be fine.

01;29;07;23 – 01;29;32;24
Jon Mayo
But. But the reason I do it is because people provide that feedback out of love like every person, no matter how much I don’t know them. You can kind of sense when there may be a little bit of arrogance or like so, you know, they’re trying to work on their own insecurities a little bit. But the overarching flavor, I’d say the preponderance of it, the majority of what you sense is a genuine desire to see you improve, which I consider a form of love.

01;29;32;29 – 01;29;42;27
Jon Mayo
It’s like, Hey, man, I really want you to not lose your arm. Please do this because I know you got this and thank you for your patience. When I say this, please don’t break legs. You know, it’s like, Yeah, John, I know. It’s like I know, you know, but.

01;29;43;02 – 01;29;44;26
Tayler Clifton
Please, you know.

01;29;44;28 – 01;30;06;05
Jon Mayo
And you know, like. But when you it’s all this love based. I genuinely, authentically want to see you and proof and I knew that’s what you came to me with. And I don’t know what the final analysis will be, so I’ll work through that on my own, you know. But until you’ve rustled through it all, worked through it all, pressed into it all, it’s not fair to be defensive, nor is it fair to whole, can’t accept it.

01;30;06;10 – 01;30;41;01
Jon Mayo
And I think that that’s an important distinction. When you win the conversation like this, I think that a misrepresentation of what we’re working through would be okay. Now, someone can weaponize up. You’re just being defensive. You’re not accepting my feedback. You’re closed minded. Oh, you’re this. It’s like now, you know, if you’re truly exploring feedback consistently, you start to get reps in and then when someone comes at you and says, Hey, man, you’re being this and you’ve heard that 17 times, you can still check and say, Have I slipped?

01;30;41;03 – 01;30;53;24
Jon Mayo
Am I being this? Have I regressed and that you owe yourself that and you’re the person to share that that. But that cycle is likely going to be 30 seconds to 90 seconds and you can say, Hey, man, thank you, I’m going to carry on with my day now.

01;30;53;26 – 01;30;59;00
Tayler Clifton
Yeah. And the more you do it, the more you know the course. Well, the faster you get through your processing.

01;30;59;00 – 01;31;18;14
Jon Mayo
Exactly. And specifically, if it’s the same feedback. Right, Right. If it’s similar and then when it’s not, you go the longer path until that cycle could shorten. So it’s kind of like a muscle skill. And I know that we’re running short on time, so I want to respect that for you. But it’s kind of like this, this thing that when you hear the same thing because you’re in a new organization or whatever, you can go through the cycle faster.

01;31;18;16 – 01;31;38;01
Jon Mayo
But the reason the processing I think is so important is because then you have the freedom equipping to choose your response and to accept or dislike a disk. Discard that which is true or not true based on your analysis, which I think is an important part that ought not to be thrown out with the conversation.

01;31;38;01 – 01;32;19;23
Noble Gibbens
Or even take a percentage of it. Right. So, you know, maybe maybe 15% was accurate and the other percent was not. You know what I mean? Like 100% is having the right attitude, state of mind, frame of mind allows you to maximize whatever feedback you get. And again, it’s it’s rolling. It’s what you just modeled was a that’s a good role that when you when you guys are flow rolling when we’re rolling and if you know if I’m stuck on what this role has to go this like that’s not a good you’re not a good training partner if no I have to this is how the flow has to go.

01;32;20;00 – 01;32;40;11
Noble Gibbens
Well by definition, that’s not flowing. You’re not you’re not going to be a good you’re I’m saying like that it’s a dance or a role is a dance that you’re doing with somebody. And and it takes that it takes a vulnerability to roll with somebody. It takes courage, it takes conflict. All the things that you just modeled is a is a is what a good role looks like.

01;32;40;14 – 01;32;59;14
Noble Gibbens
You know what I mean? You’re vulnerable. You’re sharing that space, you’re sharing that tension. Another thing I wrote down, you’re talking the growth is in the tension. That’s where the growth is, is where do I have a tough time with you? Where do I have a tough time with you? Okay. Those are my areas that I got to grow in.

01;32;59;17 – 01;33;09;28
Noble Gibbens
That’s where the growth is. So how can we apply that like you just did in our own life? Personally, where’s there tension? Those are the areas that I can probably choose to grow in or need to grow in.

01;33;10;04 – 01;33;12;12
Jon Mayo
And that’s what makes the obstacle away category.

01;33;12;12 – 01;33;13;24
Tayler Clifton
That plug. Man Yeah.

01;33;14;01 – 01;33;25;15
Jon Mayo
Well, no, thank you so much for joining. I want to do a rapid land because we need to get you on the road. Working people learn more about your work and things like that. If you have anything, I’d love just for you to be able to share that real quick and we’ll make sure it’s in the show.

01;33;25;15 – 01;33;55;20
Noble Gibbens
Notes for sure. So EQ gangster.com is the website EQ Gangster is the podcast is the YouTube channel and then social media. I’m on LinkedIn, I’m on Instagram, Facebook, those are all noble gibbons and NOBLE GIBBENS and there’s also Instagram. I’ve got I think I’m on Facebook, I’ve got EQ Gangster as well. But anyway, those are the spots that you can you can follow and connect with me some more.

01;33;55;20 – 01;34;18;05
Jon Mayo
Thank you guys have run He’s here. This is great. Let’s have a good day. All right. And that is the show. Thank you so much for listening. If you found value in today’s episode, please pay it forward. You can do that by liking and following the show, liking following us on social media or sharing this episode with someone you care about.

01;34;18;11 – 01;34;34;28
Jon Mayo
All of these things help more than I can put into and each action taken to help us spread the word is greatly appreciated. So once again, from all of us here at the UK and be Relentless podcast. Thank You for joining us in the journey as we seek to lead maximized lives.