Jon Mayo: 0:08
Well, howdy Dowdy Everyone, Welcome back to Be Relentless. It’s time for another Thought Expedition. Let’s go, wait, we are going that fast, but if you’re curious on how we can help you to lead a better life, check out the link in our bio. Back to the show. Well, we are here on another Thought Expedition. What is it that you’ve cooked up in your cauldron of mystery today?

Brandon Seifert: 0:50
I’m not just today. All week I’ve been pondering the idea of societal pressures, of living up to the external expectations set by just the people and the culture that we’re around, and how that affects someone. So, as a quick, this is where it kind of came from. So my buddy and I we just recently went to Collecticon I’m a nerd, by the way, if nobody knows and he bought me this cool little pokeball figuring thing and I am in my room. I had to figure out where I need to actually put it and I realized that now that my room is twice the size because I upgraded from my tiny apartment, I have like nothing in it. I have a single bookshelf that has the books itself which I bought, and then it has two little figurines on it, and then everything else has been gifted to me. And then I realized that I do not purchase anything else really for my enjoyment because I don’t see value in it. And so, looking throughout my you know the rest of the apartment and anyone else’s house that I’ve been to, they decorate. So, putting two and two together, I noticed that it is like I felt almost shame, in the sense that I don’t decorate, I don’t buy things, I don’t put any energy or love or attention into most anything of material value and, for some odd reason, I felt shame from that, because I and the world that is around us tells me that I should be doing, that I should be putting care and attention into the things that I buy, such as, you know, clothing decorating. It tells you that you should worry about the title in your career, like. Those are the things that I realized from this moment that I, for some odd reason, like I, have no intention to buy things by the way, but the world around us tells us that we need to do that, and so I have these expectations that, for some reason, I’m naturally pulled into guilt for.

Jon Mayo: 3:11
Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. I haven’t been reflecting on that thing about it. And you look around your room, right? Are you happy in your room?

Brandon Seifert: 3:23
I am. I have a ton of space for activities If I choose to do it because I don’t have it filled with everything. Like, looking around, I, like I said, I only have the bookshelf and I have yeah, I have one picture hanging thing which is, you know, for my family, and I have, you know, six pictures within that. But other than that, I don’t have anything besides my work desk and my bed, which are put very close together for optimal usage. jump right into the other, and then I have half a room that is just blank, that I do my foam rolling in, I can play with the dog and I prefer that space to be open for anything I want inside of fill it with junk, which is the way I perceive most everything else, like I don’t want to buy fake plants or rare plants or, you know, sculptures, posters. I don’t want to do any of that. But yet I naturally feel when I think about it. I feel upset about it for some reason, and I’m not sure why, because I prefer it this way. I don’t give a crap about that junk, you know.

Jon Mayo: 4:31
Well, if that is true, right One, you’re not alone. So I came across this quote the other day that I really enjoyed and I tweeted it out. But it’s, one can furnish a room very luxuriously by taking out furniture rather than putting it in, and by that that is by Francis Jordan, and there’s this absolute beauty to minimalism, especially if done with great intention. So I say that to say like there’s definitively camps here on what there is value in right. And the reason I asked is if you’re happy in your room is because if you are, as you just described, right and you like it to be set up as it is, because you have the space for festivities and that aligns with what you may want to do, whether that’s foam rolling or the dogs or training in the winter, or you want to set up a folding table to play a game, or whatever the case may be right, good, like. Then don’t change it. Because the other side of the coin that I would say, like where might it be valuable for you to invest in decorating a room very intentionally right? Is if your house is in chaos or if you’re miserable in your house, then you could utilize, you could pick one room to make as beautiful as possible as an external manifestation of the work that you’re doing on yourself to cultivate peace and contentment in your life, right? And in that context it’s like, well, if you’re miserable in your house, it’s really hard to change a whole house, but pick one room and make that beautiful and start there, like make it something that you’re happy with. And maybe for you that would be like if you were unhappy, you would go and get rid of a bunch of stuff and only have your bed and a light and a chair. So that’s like very simple and clean, right, and a couple of things you like. And that’s going to be so much for, like, individual preference, right. But I reject also the guilt element and the like. How do you attack that then? Well, it’s like, okay, well, you felt guilt and then you evaluated the guilt. Right, you felt the shame. You’re like you felt these negative, you felt these emotions, which I wouldn’t even frame them as negative, and you evaluated them. You’re like, okay, what’s going on here? And at the end of your analysis you came to the conclusion that you were a okay with things precisely as they were, that you have them that way on purpose and that you don’t want to change it and it doesn’t sound like there’s like anything weird in how you explain that. So at that point, if we reject the concept that emotions are good or bad and rather they’re just indicators for intentional introspective analysis, they’re just opportunities for us to think, then something really cool happens, right when that pain comes, when that helplessness comes, when something happens, it allows us to pause and say what am I experiencing here and why? And whatever the answer is of that experience, like of that wrestling or meditation or experience will give us information that we can then make an informed decision about. That is better informed than had we not had that emotion in the first place. And from there it’s like, okay, well, did feeling shame that must. That started as probably shocking, but by the time you’re done analyzing it, I’m curious how you felt then, because at that point I would imagine that you’re like, no, I’m okay with this and the shame melted. I’m guessing the shame probably melted away for really for peace or contentment. So like, how did that element go once you did the analysis?

Brandon Seifert: 8:14
Yeah, I mean it definitely melted away Almost in a flash. It’s like it actually kind of really surprises me how quickly you can I want to say healed, but it’s not like I’m broken or hurt by this or you know, by these, these limiting factors. But when you actually start to try to apply and really talk to yourself about the different things that you’re kind of noticing, like the little patterns, like you pay attention, if you’re aware, to the little ping of guilt that pops up when you do a certain thing, you can address this so much quicker. And now I feel like a weight is lifted off me because apparently this is something that I’ve been holding on to for quite a while and I never addressed it. So the fact that I was able to to address it and resolve that within five minutes to now, where I feel free in the, the aspect of something as simple as not caring about the, the room that I’m in, because I decided to place value that, that fixed two things I won’t, I no longer have that guilt. But also now I’m deciding and understanding what I actually find value in, you know, because now I understand, like the pictures on the wall, that is the one thing that I actually put value in, you know, because I have a picture of my grandpa, the. I have a little Star Trek pin that reminded me of him. I have that tucked away. So like I realize I don’t, I don’t hold on to anything else because I don’t need it unless I decide to assign it value, if that makes sense and there’s. There’s a lot of power that I’ve drawn from that and that understanding and also the freedom because I’ve also started throwing things away because I realize I don’t have value in them anymore. So I’m even getting more space, which is awesome. But I don’t know if that would fall into like the shadow work concept. Just, I would you say that goes into shadow work in the sense of like the parts of ourselves that we suppress or deny or we think is unacceptable, trying to reincorporate that, and it’s more of not really reincorporating but understanding. Through, through the work of meditation or self discovery, you can find and become a little bit more whole in that, the concept of it.

Jon Mayo: 11:02
I think. I think that on the shadows topic, that’s a helpful analogy, because there’s a lot that we’re just not aware of, and I think for something to be repressed, there has to be some level of understanding or knowledge that there is something that must be repressed. And one of the things that naturally occurs as someone works to become more and more intentional with their thoughts, words and actions is that it slows down time. There’s this entire theory of relativity by one of the geniuses of the last century and in case everyone doesn’t know, that’s Albert Einstein but he has this entire theory of relativity for the construct of time. And what’s that mean? Well, if I hold you underwater, especially if that water is cold, the few moments you have before you die are going to feel like a flash and like an eternity all at once. But those seconds become very important to you, whereas if you step outside, or now at 75 degrees, you will die of starvation or thirst before you do some severe exposure, and that’s like a very dark explanation. But things change depending on what your view, perspective, equipping and mindset are. Mindset is like the glasses on through which you look through the world, and if you have really clean lenses that, like. I remember I used to always wear these smoke gray lenses and then I got these violet colored ones and they’re like this dark violet, but they actually enhanced my vision and create a greater clarity and fine detail and that was incredibly helpful in both low and high light situations, and we can choose the lens and the manner with which we interact, the methodology with which we interact and see the world. So all of that to say it’s like, as you become more intentional, as I become more intentional, as we become more intentional, time slows down. So the things that may have been like oh, I’ve been carrying this for a while that took an awareness to me. I was like, oh, I’ve felt this before, but is it that it was repressed or is it that you were too chaotic in thought to even know what to do with it? So it attacked you and fleet it on for the next thing to attack you and you’re just in the middle of this storm and I think that there’s probably a spectrum of experience there where there’s things that just hit you and run right and you’re in such chaos that you don’t know how to deal with them, and then there are things where it’s like Nope, that touched me. I’m pushing that away, right, and I’m like no, I’m choosing to ignore this, I’m running from this, and the better I get running from it, the more I don’t even know what I’m running from. And I think those are two distinct camps, right, and I think that distinction is important. But one of the benefits of what the, the waymaker movement and the philosophy that we are advocating as a manner of being as waymakers, right, is that we are being incredibly intentional, we are bearing up under the weight of our radical responsibility in our lives and communities and we are taking relentless action, daily, moment by moment, to that end to create value and to create a better world. Right, and that starts itself so, like when you’re sitting there and you get hit by this pang of guilt, this shame, and you’re like Wait, I see that, I’m going to figure this out, I’m going to experience it. Then you can process through it and it’s nothing, I’m happy like this. That’s a lie. There’s no truth in that. I reject it. All of a sudden, you’re freer, right, because you learned how to have a superhuman skill and that superhuman skills you were able to grab that thought, that thought as it flew by, and contain it, master it, answer it and put it where it belongs, thus strengthening yourself and producing freedom, so that you are now better able to do this with the next thing that flies through your mind or the next obstacle that you face. And that way, yeah, it could be shadows, because both the things you repress and the things you’re not aware of are hidden outside of the light. Right, and in that context I would agree, that could very well be considered shadow work. And the reason I dive into this explanation or this exploration of that, instead of just saying yeah, it could be shadow work, is because this is where the value is Right. Right, there’s so much more freedom in seeing the spectrum of colors as opposed to just the black and white. Right, it’s like if I smell something that I was sick, I got food poisoning of as a kid, like that’s not a repressed emotional thing I may just not remit, like you know, like that just may be something I’ve not smelled in a long time because it’s from a culture or something that I’m not familiar with. And when I smell, it’s like I’ve never repressed that. It’s just not been in the light of my consciousness, you know, and now that it is, I can address it. So I think that, with that distinction, yes, we’re. It’s working on illuminating, creating greater understanding and mastery of self.

Brandon Seifert: 16:11
And I like to picture almost like a, like an onion, or because what I’ve noticed is, as I start doing these, these exercises, or start really working on things, I always notice things on the outside, like maybe a tree is a better example than an onion. I don’t know, I guess I’m just being about Shrek huh. I guess I am Shrek All right, that threw me off, but yes. So it’s almost like looking at the branches. When you’re first looking at these things, you’re going to find something that’s totally off the wall, but that thing stemmed from something else. So when I think about that, I think about something that I recently got over, which is also now becoming its own problem, which I need to readdress and really focus on, but the concept of money and finances. So I used to feel ashamed of spending money and have a guilt of it, and also I used to feel like I never could have enough, in a self-sabotaging way and I say that by me assuming that I won’t be happy unless I have this next amount of money. And then I want to get that. I feel upset because I want more, because I need that as a safety blanket. So after realizing that and I took a couple of small measures and I eventually kind of worked my way through it it led to another portion of that, if that makes sense. So like I’m going closer and closer to the heart of the tree, in the sense that I discovered the issue, which is like the leaves. I thought I was done with it, but then I realized no, that was just a small twig leading to the branch, which is then leading to the trunk, and then you can find the root of the issue. And so, without me going into a huge explanation of that, it all stemmed at least this portion of it because when I was someone to say eight or nine, we had a winner. We lost power because we couldn’t pair, you know, utility bill, and so we went three months without power, which meant that any electronics that I needed for school, cell phones or whatever we had to charge at a neighbor’s house and sit in the cold because they only allowed us, like the exterior outlets. You know we also didn’t have heat. You know we of course had the water, just because neighbors wouldn’t let us just kind of deal without that for the most part. But going a couple months without that and understanding that the hardship was because we couldn’t afford it, because my dad wasn’t working and my mom just couldn’t make it with the three jobs she had, I naturally had that instinctive fear of what if I can’t provide? And then that built into what if I need to get another job? Oh, I don’t want to do that. So I want to just keep expanding and continue to grow. And so then that put different stresses on different aspects of my life, including social, because now I didn’t want to hang out with friends, I wanted to go work more so I can make more money. So I finally addressed that. Now it’s kind of funny because now I’m in the opposite swings where it’s like dude. I realized spending money can be fun. Who knew you can go and have adventures and, you know, show people you appreciate them, and that’s that’s even more dangerous and that’s what I got to bring in. But I guess the point of that is, the more you look at like the small things that seem small in the first place in my mind normally lead to something bigger If you just keep pulling on that thread.

Jon Mayo: 20:05
Yeah, I think that when we add in emotion, memory and experience, it transforms our 3D world into a 4D one, and the way I think of it is that there’s so many metaphors here. So instead of using more it’s just how much understanding of self can we illuminate and bring out of the shadows? And like the? As simply and lightly as I can put it, it’s almost like you’re, you’re floating in this transcendent space where everything appears to be the surface of water and there’s many EK icebergs that you can see the top of right, and over time you’re able to like, gain understanding of the tip and the water drains away and you gain understanding of the more and more of the iceberg. But then here’s the twisting gets really funky. It’s all connected like a musselium or like mushrooms, like a network, and it all sending electrical impulses about. It’s all connected to you and to everything, and the goal is just how much light can I shine so that there’s greater visibility, so they have better understanding, so that there’s less things hiding that which I don’t understand myself? Right, so that I’m more capable to be present. And I think that’s really the. So what in it? Because that there comes a point right and in Maslow’s hierarchy. It goes beyond, like the first four stages, to self actualization and self transcendence. And well, once you’ve done enough, work right, we’re always evolving creatures and there’s no end to the transit, transcendence level of that, and the self actualization is a very lengthy one and all of them are actually very in depth. So it’s like this concept that to keep it very light and not go deep into that hierarchy is there comes a point where you have a thorough enough competency and understanding, mastery of self that the majority of your energy and effort begins to shift from focusing on self to the outward environment. And there needs to be, in my opinion, like by the time you’re there, there’s likely already an intentional, disciplined, have, habitual series of actions that occurs to ensure that darkness does not like lack of understanding, does not begin to see back in right. But once you’re at that point where, like, 90% of your resources are freed because you no longer exploring the wilderness that is yourself, then you can begin to look outward and that’s where there’s a lot of cool things that can be done and that’s where I think a lot of movers and shakers do really cool things. But there’s kind of two types of movers and shakers the ones that have that pain and darkness that they refuse to illuminate and that turns into a sort of fuel that propels them in in an unstoppable, often, manner, in a direction right, and that’s their like. An example of that is apparently there’s a strong correlation between true high performers, like genuine like, not like, oh, I’m a high performer, like F you you’re probably not but like a genuine high performer, like a musk or like like those types of people you know, like the 1% of the 1% who are accomplished for accomplishments. I’m not talking about wealth, they’re just crushing it. There’s a strong correlation between some form of trauma in their childhood and the significance of their accomplishments. And that’s where it’s just like hey, there, there’s nothing that’s black and white. Here people can choose to just go so hyper, focused into the war and pursuits that they desire, that they have an adequate understanding of self, but there’s they become almost out of body and reliant on the things that they build right. And then there’s and that is a path, and there’s a lot of successful people doing that I’m more the advocate of the path that we master ourselves and to the best of our ability and then pour out from the abundance of self and overwhelming amount in pursuit of creating something greater than self that, simultaneously as we build it truly builds us, and that’s my bent on the world. So, you know, when we’re looking at all these things, it’s like yeah, like good, the more. The more progress made here, right, the more effective you’ll be at being free. Oh, and that’s the other element of it that I just snap back into my brain is well, why does that matter, right? Well, once you’ve mastered, so, if you’re able to be content now and in that contentment and like, think of master is not completion, but mastery is being like a master in something who has extraordinary proficiency. Right, they’ve mastered the skill set, but the work still needs done, as you know. I think that’s better with looking at like, once that master is achieved, you have the ability to be present and, in that presence, create and build and love and invest. Or what those who don’t do this first can’t do is be, you know, just be. And I think that there’s a you know, an entire spectrum with 50,000 shades of gray between it and unlike how, how people accomplish and experience that for themselves. But it’s an interesting way to to wrestle with it or to explore it.

Brandon Seifert: 25:41
Yes. I agree to everything that you just said. So someone that is and I’m clearly not talking about myself. Once again, if I want to expand on these kind of subjects, on self mastery in the sense, where would you suggest someone start? And I’d almost like to. If you are to challenge the listener to begin in some form or fashion through this discussion, where would you kind of send them as in almost like a homework?

Jon Mayo: 26:15
That’s hard to do universally, because the caution that I sense, like that comes to mind, is, depending on how dark it is, someone may not have the strength to, you know, there’s just so many components, but to answer the question to the center mass, right to the center mass, and not looking at the fringes, it’s. Stop living under the this lie that you’re special and stop living under this lie that you’re a victim and, instead of expecting more from strangers than you do of yourself, than you do of yourself, start expecting a tremendous amount of yourself and, probably most importantly, stop looking at pain, adversity and discomfort as your enemy or assailant and instead embrace them as your teacher, mentor and friend, because that is where freedom comes from being able to begin to do that right. Whatever is hurting or you’re running from the most is likely the lowest hanging or most urgent critical thing that if you addressed, your life would begin to tremendously improve. And the truth of the matter is very, very likely, overwhelmingly so, that you do have within your power the ability to address that thing that you’re running from or that you feel assailed by, that you feel that you’re being attacked by that you feel helpless to. And that is good news, because if it’s not good, luck right. But if it is, that is great news, because then at least you can do something. Even if it’s awkward, ugly and slow, you can do something and begin to climb out, you know, and there’s so many spectrums that’s like I had to take my own advice. Earlier today I was working at a break pace and all of a sudden it felt like I jettisoned off the edge of a cliff. I finished something. I got, like I knocked it off my list, I went up, I went to the board. I realized I completed everything on the board, I completed everything on the list I have. I have efforts booked out through the 28th right, so like the next 10 days, like I have a lot of stuff done. And I realized like, oh man, I’m free falling. I have no idea what to do right now and there’s always things to do, right. So it was just a matter of like, what do I do? But I like, at that moment I was like, oh my gosh, I have no idea what to do and that, especially when you’re so focused like that, was an incredibly uncomfortable situation, especially given the circumstances I’m in. It’s like, well, if I don’t know what to do, I’m truly SOL Because I don’t have, I’m not in the situation for vacations, and so I took my own advice. I, you know, I allowed myself to feel that and I went for a long walk and I just allowed the anger, the cycle of anger, frustration, confusion, helplessness and curiosity to continue to mull over as I walked and meditated until the curiosity won out and then until, like, everything kind of burned out, passed its way through and I was able to see that I was remaining in the kerosity grew, and then I was able to determine oh, there’s like these six, seven things I could do, and I think this is the order that makes the most sense. And once I’ve done the first three, I can pause and think if I’ve done it like if, what to do next? Right, but and that’s like a very small example, but it was emotional, philosophical and existential in its nature, because everything in my life right now is tied to what I do today and expectant hope for the future to become realized and to not repeat the pains of the past. And what’s beautiful is because of that. It forced me to say, oh man, now the most appropriate action I can do is pause and breathe in the pine trees and enjoy this walk and feel the sun on me and and focus on allowing all this to drain out of me until I’m empty and then allow that which is helpful to flow back in and the say, if that was really beautiful, right. So it’s like, okay, there’s, there’s evolutions to this, there’s stages to it. But if, like someone’s hearing this, and they’re like man, I want you know, to your question like, how do I do this more? It’s like, brandon, you’re doing it right. So for yourself, it’s just keep doing it Right, just stay the course, be relentless, be maniacal in the pursuit of it. Right, I loved it. Someone said so. Well, I don’t want to look it up right now, but they’re like the greatest. I think they said sin, but but the greatest sin is not failing to hit the mark, but not aiming high enough. And what was beautiful to me about that is like we’ve had conversations about just not wanting to lower the standard right. And to me, like I’ve, I’ve come to the realization for myself that when I walk up the stairs from my office to go rejoin my family in the evening, or to shift gears, if I feel like I’ve not gone far enough and I’m running on a rope on like and I’m running down the road. I’m doing as much as I can, but I wanted to accomplish so much more. And it’s in line with the intentional, analyzed initiatives that I’m working right. It’s not sporadic, but it’s like it’s in line with that. I know that I’m on the right path because I know that I will never feel like I’ve done enough, unless I’m in an extraordinarily rare circumstance where the most important thing for me to do is reflect, meditate and be, and those are short cycles for me, but they’re necessary. When they come, I have to, I have to embrace them or I’m ineffective. So it’s like I think the idea of like if you want to be a higher performer as a human being, part of that is going to feel like you’re not doing enough most of the time, and that’s okay and in fact it’s kind of beautiful because it makes life so interesting. But I would encourage folks to grab ahold of whatever they can muster the strength to do, to grab ahold of and focus on it until it loses all of its power and they understand.

Brandon Seifert: 32:45
Definitely, and I will. I really enjoy the part that you said about staying in the course, but some small sprints require a slowing down to reanalyze, meditate, do that self-work, and there’s no shame in that, because you’re still on that same path. You’re still striving forward. So some people, when we worked together a long time ago, I came to you with the question of am I allowed to just sit and think about the next best course of action? And you told me yeah, sometimes that’s the best thing you can do if there is one, if you don’t have something else pressing. But there are many times where it’s necessary to reanalyze what’s going on in your department or pushing this N word in on yourself. Sometimes you need to do that, and that’s another thing. It’s funny enough. That’s another thing that just through this conversation I realized I still felt shame about doing in some senses.

Jon Mayo: 33:58
Well, a lot of that could be dependent on the environment in which you’re in, because two parts here one it is a very weird discipline to develop to say, okay, there’s this mountain of work, but today I impromptu 90 minute meditation cycle, walking meditation, nature bath I forgot which culture has a word for that, but I went for that. Nature bath and meditation cleared my mind and allowed myself to kind of empty out right, and that’s because of what we just discussed. I realized that was necessary. Everything of importance in my life is riding on the actions that I take. Right so it’s like. But I don’t have it. But I realized that I will be less effective and likely spinning wheels unhelpfully if I don’t do that right. So I invest in that so that I can make better decisions. Despite seeing the list of things that I could do, I needed to verify are they worth doing and, if so, what order? Right so like. On the one hand, it’s that there’s a discipline where, if someone’s not an immediate need, right, depending on the circumstances you’re working in, that despite having mountains of important things to do, it may still be necessary to pause everything, shut it out and collect oneself and verify the trajectory and direction of travel right, verify the prioritization of efforts, and then there’s times where it’s like earlier, where it’s like I launched off the list I had and I had to recollect myself to reidentify what should be done not what could be done right. And that works really well when you don’t have additional external stimuli. But if you’re an organization, we’re sitting. I think that oftentimes depending on many, I think oftentimes in many cultures in the workplace, if you’re sitting sitting, even with a pad of paper and a pen, and you’re looking at the pad of paper and the pen, or you’re looking at the wall, there’s still this feeling of like I need to be actively riding so that it’s seen that I’m being productive. But we’re not. We are cyclical, iterative creatures by nature and like, even biologically, we sleep, we rise, we wake, we rest, we sleep right, and there’s that cycle and we hunger, we eat. It dissipates. We hunger, we eat right. So it’s like everything that we do is in a rhythm. As much as I think, I might love though I’m not certain I would the ability to hit a button, take a pill and just never need to sleep again, never need to do this again, right, which I don’t trust that that’s the case, we have to go in cycles and that’s why, when we did work together, I said absolutely, if you don’t abuse this right, and you come to the point where you realize that the most productive thing you think you can do is take 10 minutes, half an hour, an hour, four hours, to truly deeply understand, analyze and come to a conclusion that is going to make the next 36 hours highly more effective and produce a significantly better ROI, I’ll tell you to take the day right, and then it’s just a matter of like the socially acceptable norms of building trust for that ROI. It’s like, oh no, do not mess with that guy. He’s thinking and when he’s done thinking, he’s going to create something of greater value, right, and I think that’s something that’s systemic across, largely systemic across the work environment, at least that here in the States is like if you’re sitting thinking, you’re not being productive. And I even remember in man, it’s not turn the ship around, it’s not go giver. It’s the other book where we got the idea of the dream manager, the dream manager, right. So the guy who created the dream manager element, like that, that entire consulting program and everything he was, he was like some high level up in this company and the owner, founder dude, came in and the guy who wrote all this stuff had his feet up on his desk, his hands behind his head and his eyes closed. He’s like what are you doing? He’s like I’m thinking. He’s like do I pay you to think? he’s like that is the most important thing you pay me to do and and you know, but the results of what he did with his efforts showed that to be the case, right, and that’s where it’s like, hey, no one go around here talking about how you heard this and you’re like, well, I’m thinking that’s the most important thing I can do. No, it’s an incredibly critical, potentially the most important thing you should do to ensure that your return on investment of your time and labor is significantly higher. And if it is, then you can say if I don’t do this, I’m not going to be as effective, Right, but great.

Brandon Seifert: 39:06
Well, I can’t wait to digest that part of the of that, that guilt, and I actually really enjoy that. We brought that back up because it’s it’s funny how past lessons that you’ve taken can dissipate over time, unless you do take that time to really think about your progress or just. I guess that is the journey. It’s easy to forget the places and the things you’ve learned over the people you’ve learned from, and it does require consistent reevaluation, consistent thought, otherwise, what’s what? Why did you spend that time in the past thinking about that? You know?

Jon Mayo: 39:57
I mean we’re. We are in fall now, right, right, pretty sure we’re officially in fall, summer’s behind us, but summer will likely come again, right, winter is coming when winter passes and next winter will come. Right, maybe not for us as individuals, but as far as we can tell, it will continue to come. And in the same way, I think that the more we sink into accepting the cyclical nature of being but work to evolve in our response to that, I think, the more free we are. All right, that is another episode of Be Relentless. Thank you for listening and if you found value in today’s show, share it now, not later. Do it right now and help to spread the value and make this world a little bit brighter than it was when we started. Forge forward.