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066. T.E. : Tackling Imposter Syndrome & Becoming a Monster w/ Jon & Brandon

066. T.E. : Tackling Imposter Syndrome & Becoming a Monster w/ Jon & Brandon Be Relentless

Today, we tackle the pervasive issue of imposter syndrome, sharing practical strategies to combat this self-doubt by asking the right questions, acknowledging our worth, and taking radical responsibility for our actions. We also delve into the importance of acknowledging both our successes and failures, understanding they contribute to our growth and development.Next, we shift gears to discuss the importance of strength and protection. We're not talking about brute force but rather the ability to choose whether or not to engage in violence, even when we have the capacity to do so. We argue that strength is about making choices, about knowing when to respond with action, versus when to step back. This kind of strength leads to respect and provides a safer environment for ourselves and our loved ones. "It's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war."-Chinese ProverbReferenced in The ShowPrepared: A Manual for Surviving Worst-Case Scenarios By Mike GloverViolence of Mind: Training and Preparation for Extreme Violence By Carg FreebornIf you found value in the show please SHARE IT with someone you care about as well as SUBSCRIBE and RATE IT with a 5-Star Review! Ready to dive deeper? Visit ULAUniverse.com to explore more of the impactful work we're doing. Don't forget to use code 'BERELENTLESS' at checkout to enjoy a 10% discount sitewide!Do you have a question for us, want to be on the show, or have a recommendation for a guest or topic? CONTACT US HERE.We are grateful you joined us! Be Relentless is a Forge Publications LLC production and is proudly co-branded with the Universal Learning Approach. Copyright 2023. All Rights Reserved.

Today, we tackle the pervasive issue of imposter syndrome, sharing practical strategies to combat this self-doubt by asking the right questions, acknowledging our worth, and taking radical responsibility for our actions. We also delve into the importance of acknowledging both our successes and failures, understanding they contribute to our growth and development.

Next, we shift gears to discuss the importance of strength and protection. We’re not talking about brute force but rather the ability to choose whether or not to engage in violence, even when we have the capacity to do so. We argue that strength is about making choices, about knowing when to respond with action, versus when to step back. This kind of strength leads to respect and provides a safer environment for ourselves and our loved ones.

“It’s better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.”
-Chinese Proverb

Referenced in The Show

If you found value in the show please SHARE IT with someone you care about as well as SUBSCRIBE and RATE IT with a 5-Star Review!

Ready to dive deeper? Visit ULAUniverse.com to explore more of the impactful work we’re doing. Don’t forget to use code ‘BERELENTLESS’ at checkout to enjoy a 10% discount sitewide!

Do you have a question for us, want to be on the show, or have a recommendation for a guest or topic? CONTACT US HERE.

We are grateful you joined us!

Episode Transcript Click Here

Jon Mayo: 0:08
Well, howdy-dowdy everyone and welcome back to today’s Thought Expedition on the B Relentless podcast. First, in case you did not know, the ULA is live, so head on over to ulainuniversecom and check it out. And since we’ve last spoke, a few cool things have been added. We do now have the ULA Allies, which is for businesses, nonprofits and organizations to come together and work together and stand in unison in the pursuit of creating value, helping people lead better lives and building a brighter future. So if that is something that interests you, please head on over and check it out. In addition, our affiliation program is now live. So if you want to help spread the word, you believe in our mission, you love CCU stamina or you want to try it, and then you want to also earn a profit while hoping to spread the word, then the affiliate program may be for you. Those two things aside, today is a twofer. Brandon and Rapid Fire Succession served up two topics that we got to explore and unpack quite a few ideas from within, so it was a lot of fun. The first one was on asking the right question, specifically an alignment with battling imposter syndrome and what is that anyways? And the second exploration was on the concept of being a monster under self-constraint, or why is it better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war? So, without further ado, let’s jump on in. You thought we were going right in, but wait. You may have noticed that I just told you that CCU stamina performance evolved. You know, the supplement I’ve been talking about for the last two years is available now. So, as you’re listening to this, head on over to theulauniversecom and check out all the cool stuff Kirk and I have been building. Look forward to seeing you there. Now let’s get on with the show.

Brandon Seifert: 2:12
Yes, today I wanted to discuss a couple things one that we briefly touched on last time after our previous conversation, and then one I just wanted your general thoughts on, and I guess we’ll start with that one because I was probably the last one, but it is asking the right questions. So, for context, this week has been a little difficult at work. I’ve been really questioning am I a good leader? Am I pursuing the right kind of things? And I started asking myself well, is that even the right question? Do I even want to be a leader? What aspects am I thinking that I’m failing in? But you know, the surface level thoughts are immediately like no, I’m a failure. All the you know these really negative thoughts. So I wanted to get your take on reinserting the right questions and determining the right questions from your point of view.

Jon Mayo: 3:10
Okay, I don’t know if those questions are wrong, but, like in a lot of ambitious pursuits, there’s the imposter syndrome, right, which is like oh, why should I do this? Why can’t I? I think that that’s a. I think it’s okay to battle the imposter syndrome. I think it’s necessary, as a leader or as a human being striving to do good things on either on either plan right, whether it’s you’re leading yourself or whether it’s you are in a leadership position, we’re responsible for other human beings in some capacity. I think it’s a wonderful sign to find ourselves asking the question am I doing well at this? Right, like? Am I handling this responsibility Well? My stewarding Well? My caring for my team Well? Am I prioritizing the right things to accomplish the mission or the goals that we have as a organization? Well, right. And to have that hit, like to have that question hit, and to sit down and take it seriously for a minute, right To actually evaluate it, not just allow the question to fester, I think it’s very healthy. Now, what I’m also picking up from what you said is that coming with the questions is a slew of emotion that is making it very difficult to focus. It’s kind of the read Is that accurate? Yeah, that’s accurate, yeah, and that’s where I think that’s like okay, let’s put on our let’s put on our analytical hat. Right, let’s take a step back. Let’s evaluate what I’m doing, what I’m not doing, what the goals of the team are. They’re not what I know about each of my team members and however far you have to go and analyze, you’ll likely like, anytime an exercise like this is done, we’ll likely find something that we can do better. Right, and that kind of comes into part with like well, what is happening here? And essentially, it’s like you’re negotiating with your environment, you’re working through something, something probably is not going precisely as you want it, or something’s falling apart, or you know something to that element, and you’re like okay, why? And it’s an active humility, or it’s a like a symbol. It represents the humility that you have to be in that situation, and the first thing you ask, or one of the first things you ask, is okay, why, where am I messing this up? Right, because that that inherently means that you’re looking at the situation through the lens of radical responsibility, right. You’re like okay, this is mine, whereas Draco Coins extreme ownership. You’re like okay, how am I contributing to the success or failure of this circumstances, right, which I think is really healthy. So, to like, take that question seriously and analyze, it is important. And the one other element to add to that is like, okay, well, I did the analysis and I don’t know what else to do. I think that what I’m doing is fine, but still falling apart, right, like, that can always happen, and in that case you know when we can’t. There’s this adage that when you cannot change your environment, you’re forced to change yourself, right? Well, we have tremendous freedom with where we live in this phenomenal country and in our lives. So I’m of the mind okay, work to identify what in yourself needs changed and do that work. Change yourself if it’s healthy and in line with your ideals and what you’re pursuing to be right. Take the bitter pill, swallow the truth and improve and keep doing that and do not dare stop doing that. Then the next phase comes. Okay, I’m doing this and the environment is not responding. Well, right, I saw a problem identified until ownership for myself, and now the environment is still not responding. Despite me changing, right, it’s still executing things in whatever negative way. Well, there comes a point where you continue to work on changing yourself and the environment may continue to not change in a positive way and there has to come a point where the decisions made, I will no longer allow myself to remain in this environment because for however long I’ve been unsuccessful in influencing it towards health success, what have you right? And I’ve been very intentional to transform myself each day and not allow excuses or response bodied to the slide from my hand Right. So at what point am I wasting my efforts? Am I investing my who? I am poorly. You know all of those elements and that’s kind of the sequence of thought that I go through, just based off of the questions and how you presented them.

Brandon Seifert: 8:17
It makes me really question Is this actually a sustainable company that I can actually grow as a leader within? And I’ll have to do some chewing on that on my own in the background. But you touched on imposter syndrome. Which man? That thing gets to me all the time and I think it’s worth at least diving into a little bit on one. What is it and how do we combat it?

Jon Mayo: 8:51
Yeah, so and the question you asked and we don’t have to dive into it right, the one that you’re going to chew on for yourself is a really good question, because it would be an unfair burden on yourself to put yourself in the crucible of evaluation right, and also not take your environment and the other players and the other components. It’s critical to take in as much data as we can effectively to make a more thorough analysis right, and that, hopefully, will help free you. But there does come a point where that evaluation does need to happen and it needs to inform the decisions you make, because otherwise this gaslighting effect can start to happen or this erosion of self. Right, gaslighting is my understanding of it. It came from this idea. There was some movie in the 1900s and essentially the husband like all the lights in the house were controlled by gas, right, so he would turn the lights down with the gas and like he was trying to kill his wife. It’s actually like a suspense thriller movie, but this is at least where I saw it, this is at least how I learned about it. And so she like tripped down the stairs of the poor thing and she said go over against, the lights are off and he’s like, nope, no, lights are still as bright as they always are, and like he was trying to make her lose her mind. Essentially, he’s like, no, like that pens always been there. This couch was always been here. Anyways, it’s essentially gradually lying right, it’s changing the environment, but saying like, oh no, everything’s the same or everything’s this way, and it’s not that that’s gaslighting in essence, at least as far as my understanding. But if you’re in an environment where you’re gasoline yourself because you’re changing the environment’s not and you’re struggling with that, right, like, well, at some point it’s going to, you’re going to either gain an unhealthy perspective on yourself because you’re not taking into account the other players, or some weirdness is going to happen because of that equation. Right, so good. I think it’s really important to do, to ask that precise question and it’s not worth jumping past. And then imposter syndrome is the very plainly put, the feeling of being an imposter in a, in a activity. Right, you could start a podcast and be like who the heck am I to be doing this? Why am I doing this? I’m such an like. I feel like an imposter, I feel like I don’t belong here, I’m uncomfortable and out of my skin. You know you could write a book, you could start a business. You could go join a sports team. You could join a gaming team, right, it doesn’t matter what it is. You could earn a rollout work, become a father. You know it’s, in whatever pursuit or activities you’re doing, if you do not feel like you belong and you feel like you’re faking it in a big way, that that feeling is the imposter syndrome. And the counteraction to that is like well, perhaps you’re being imposter, right? So there’s always that to take into account. And then there’s also but then there’s also the side of like who the heck is to say you shouldn’t be doing this things? And who the heck is there to say that you’re not meant to be in that environment, to rise up and grow and fully become that which you set out to be? And to that in like, two quick examples when you write a book, or you’re writing the book or is the book writing you. When you strive to become a leader, you don’t show up as a leader and be a good one. That comes from the honing, growth through application. Yeah, you can add theory and perspective and analyze a lot of things, but you’ll never know until you’re actually leading folks and responsible for that, and the closest reflection you have prior to that is how you’re leading your own life. And the final analogy, just so it’s like three and done is in like Brazilian jiu-jitsu or any combat sports, right, you can study it, you can watch YouTube, you can like all the Instagram accounts and go to UFC parties and feel like you’re really bad and like Yo bro, watch out if I see red. Right, but you’re not a fighter until you’re on the mats getting your face pushed in and that goes right. But no one expects someone who steps onto the mats for the first time to already be there, and they may feel like an imposter when they’re there. Like, well, who am I to be on these mats and do the engage in this fight? Right, I can’t do it, I don’t belong here. But they do it 10 times and they start to learn and then they start to evolve and grow into the thing they want to be. So that’s kind of like a myriad of pursuits where I think that if you’re not deceiving and lying to people in a way that’s malicious, it’s okay to say it’s, it’s okay to stake your claim boldly in the pursuit of that which you desire to be as well as that which you are Right, and I think that’s fair in many leadership positions. I think that’s fair in many personal pursuits right when I think we’d be careful not to do. That is like I want to be a doctor. I’m not a doctor, I’m not trying to be a doctor, but I’m lying about all my credentials to be a doctor. That’s going to get us in a huge problem and that is an actual imposter Right. So that’s kind of a shock. That’s kind of like a rapid fire succession of analyzing imposter syndrome.

Brandon Seifert: 14:36
Well said, and so the best medicine to counteract it is confidence, through taking stock of the actions that you’ve already done or pursued.

Jon Mayo: 14:56
Yeah, that, coupled, though, with continued action, right. And there comes a point where it’s like, okay, I’m feeling really crappy about this, right, I shouldn’t be on this podcast. Let’s just use the podcast as an example because we’re here, right? Maybe let’s just pretend that it’s like why the heck are we here? Like I do from time to time thankfully a little bit less frequently I’m becoming more comfortable in my skin on the show. I’m fairly confident and happy to do this all the time now, but sometimes I’m like what am I doing? Like, who am I to do this? And then the thought is like, well, who am I not to do this? There’s a cost to everything we strive to do and don’t. By not doing this, what benefit is lost from the last two years? Right, had it not occurred If I stopped, what would be lost from that? What would be gained? Right, so I can go through all that, but at the end of the day, it’s like, well, sometimes your feelings may just lie to you. Or sometimes you’re just tired and you’re battling, you know, demons that you defeated a while ago, or sometimes it’s still live in a prom. It’s like, well, what the heck do I do? Well, let’s put ourselves to work. You know, okay, I feel like an impostor. Okay, congratulations, but you’re doing something. So maybe, there, I think there’s also times where we just have to tell her that voice to shut up and it’s like, okay, or to accept the fact that I’m nobody right, that like there’s a number of ways to navigate it. But, like, if I feel like it, I’m like, okay, yeah, fair enough, who am I? Okay, I’m a nobody, but I know a bunch of nobodies and I’m going to speak to them. Or you know what? It’s why, like, the start was to focus on why am I doing this, right? Well, I want to have a good conversation with the person on the other side of the table and if it creates value for us, then can I, we have the courage to share it with the world, right? And then the other element that I play, when it starts to feel real bad, is like, okay, am I pretending to be something that I’m so extensively? Not that it’s creating a conflict of character for me? And in that context, that’s why, from the start, two years ago, when this was the grit theory into through the book, into the business, into all those things which, by the way, the ULA announced five team members, which is a pretty cool shout out but looking forward to like formally announcing everyone. But when we look at that, are we trying to be some like subject matter expert guru, sherpa, you know, messiah figure, or are we inviting people on a journey with us? Right, and I think that, not to go long on it, this, this conversation, started by looking at leadership, right. So, like, if there, if there’s a feeling of being not belonging as a leader, I think it’s okay to tell your team, or to be honest with yourself, that you’re striving to lead to the best of your capacity, lead yourself, lead your team, lead to the win all those things right. And it’s okay to ask to learn from your team. And it’s okay to have the kind of conversation of hey, the buck stops with me when something goes wrong, I own it. When something goes right, I’m going to share that love with you guys. I am actively working to become a better human being and a better leader, and I would appreciate any feedback that you guys have for me to that end. That being said, I’m going to continue to lead to the best of my ability and support you guys in x, y and z ways. To the best of my ability, let’s lean into intentional conversation to continue to improve and grow in that. And then be careful when someone does give you feedback for the first time or you know, like, and can we work as a team in in this direction to accomplish these proceeds? Right, you can essentially invite people in to work together and in so doing, better leave, right? No one says you have to have all the answers and no one says that any of us have to have it figured out. It’s just can we take responsibility? That’s commensurate with that which the rules are responsible for, and that conversation does that in a humble, genuine and authentic way, and it also invites the team in to support, right, you know, hey, I don’t have the answers here, I have no idea how the system works, hey, this, this or this, but I know I can help, I know I can do X, y or Z or so. Will you help me accomplish this so that we can do it as a together? You know, and on all those different negotiations with self, with the team, with environment, I think allow for the opportunity to say, okay, let’s proceed. And then, at the worst case scenario, I’m just like really wrestling with this. Well, what would a leader do here? Right, like, if you’re just like, you just wrap it far and through these different approaches. But if it’s real bad and you’re just like man, like depressed and really struggling with it because you’re just in your head someday, then sometimes the the Hail Mary save in grace is just okay. What would a leader do while screwed? I’m going to do that then, right To the best of my ability and I’m just going to show up and do that and get through today. Get some food in my belly, get, get it, you know, get some hydration going, get a little exercise going and just take the action that I think a leader would do here. And what’s beautiful about doing this? When the day is done, if you’ve done that to the best of your ability, then you have fled Maybe not well, but you’ve led and you can analyze and grow from there Very definitely lots of true on, but I wanted to start the my next topic real fast. Yeah, it’s good.

Brandon Seifert: 20:44
You are the the one that listens to all kinds of Jordan Peterson, so you’re gonna know this much better than I am off the top of my head. But it’s the idea of better to be a dangerous person and not have to be the person to use it versus to not be dangerous and, if you need it, not have it. So I know I severely butchered that, but I want your thoughts on it, how that can apply to someone’s life, why they should be looking into this kind of mind shift and building towards something like this.

Jon Mayo: 21:29
Okay, well, let’s get past Bart. Like. There’s context. I love this concept and talk about a lot, and I think the way he specifically frames is like you ought to be a monster under self restraint, right? And I want to say it’s Bruce Lee, but there’s at least this quote somewhere floating around where it’s better to be a warrior in a garden than a garden of war. And why would that be? Well, still in the borrowing ideas and not progressing like, as we lay the foundation, there’s this be. Jordan Peterson does give this beautiful analogy of like there’s no virtue in being a rabbit. There’s nothing good about being helpless and not being able to do anything. Right, if you’re a rabbit and something goes wrong, you’ve run or you die, you know. And what? What is good about that? What good can you do from that position? Whereas if you are a lion, you can choose to kill or not to, you can choose to protect or not to, and that’s why I don’t mind walking over and grabbing a rabbit, but I’m certainly not going to walk over and grab a lion, you know right, it’s, it’s respect. I respect the creature. I had a dog as a kangal. They’re these Turkish shepherds. They weigh like 120 to 150 pounds. They’re tall enough to grab things off the top of your fridge and they’re one of the most intelligent creatures I’ve ever met. I had to. We lost one to a truck, which was devastating, and then we lost another. We had to re home the other one because Our land and the jobs we could give him were not enough to stimulate him and keep him healthy and like, keep him mentally healthy and secure. Right, and he was an absolute, just, monster, incredible dog. I respected him because I knew that for the first time in my life I had a dog that posed a significant threat to me if under the wrong circumstances and I have a lot of hundred plus pound dogs I have five right at four right now that are all over a hundred or near it, and one that’s going to be about 60. Right, this dog was different and I do respect all the others because they all do pose a threat. But that’s not the point. It’s like here’s this dog that I look at, that I know is analyzing me as thinking it’s intelligent. It it’s not a threat in that it’s malicious, but it’s a threat that and if I don’t treat it properly, if I don’t maintain my position properly, it could be a significant issue, right and well. How does how does all that matter? It’s like, well, do we just walk around with a stick thin and beat our chest? No, not at all. But Strength In the capacity for violence I do agree personally is a good thing, and the reason I believe that is because Strength in the capacity for violence, but the ability to choose not to, is a good thing, because then you also have the ability to choose to, and that may matter if you are in a situation that requires you to choose it To protect something of value. And I think that’s really what it comes down to. I work to be as dangerous and strong and mentally sharp as as as humanly possible, because I have the gift and responsibility of my bride and four sons At minimum To walk through life and ensure that they live the best life possible as I can, as I can facilitate it, and that they make it home each night safely. And If I was Weak and not capable of defense, we may be fine, but, goodness, if something happens, I’m not going to be able to do much about it Right, and maybe that will still be the case, but I’m prepared to do it Right If you take someone who’s cultivated the skill sets and they’re in a garden, right, to go back to that adage they’re going to be great there, they can garden to their life’s content. They may never even have to fight, they may die in peace, right. But if the enemy does come to the gates, they know what to do. They grab their sword and they go, opposed to what the the, the one who does not have that capacity, what, what did they do? They may grab their shovel and try, or they may die. And you know, we could lament the world we live in, but I’m not, I’m not really curious about, I don’t have too strong of a desire to like try to change human nature, right, or change. I guess that’s not entirely true. I’m not trying to change the universe to some ideal perspective, or this isn’t necessary, but Because I think that’d be a futile attempt. But I can change my response and I can. I do think that we can become something that demands respect but pours out love, and then, when necessary, correct. That’s what’s wrong, which is wrong With extraordinary intentionality, but also like Just an observation. People act differently when they’re in the presence of someone who they know has that type of capacity. Conversation seemed to be a little bit more polite and caring, not? So what do you think about that? And what? What brings that up? You know, because, like it’s a fun idea.

Brandon Seifert: 27:44
Well so. So for me, you know, I went through a rough childhood but I went about it in much more of the rabbit fashion where I just I look towards running away To get out of danger, because it was always there, versus just fighting it. And eventually that did change a little bit. But in some aspects I still see myself as that and, going through a couple of the exercises that I’ve been going through, it’s been Very apparent that I want A few main things in my life and one of those is going to be a family. And so if I were to have a family, could I protect them? The answer right now is no, very, very honest. I can kind of shoot a gun, you know, but gun only works if you know that you need to use it and also if you’re willing to take the full on Consequence of utilizing it in the first place and not succeeding. But this protector mentality that I’ve been kind of wrestling with is showing me that I still have a lot more to build towards. And how does one go from being a rabbit To being that line?

Jon Mayo: 29:13
By doing what you’re doing, man, and like there’s eight billion of us, so there’s so many functions to serve, but I would, I do think that it’s add, I do think that it this is, I do think that this is good. Like, in a quick juxtaposition, there’s no value in being a monster. Right, a monster is a monster and needs to, needs to die. It needs to be put under restraint, but there is value. The distinction, right, is I to continue to pull from the source that started this conversation. The distinction is I have a sword to know exactly how to use it, but choose to keep it in its sheath. Right, and that’s absolutely necessary. And it’s the idea of meekness. Like the word meek, right, it’s a strong. It’s largely used in Christian circles. Meek does not equal weak. It’s not meek like a lamb, unless you’re describing the lion, right, it’s the. You know, a lion that, like we’ve seen lines that care for, like a baby lamb. Right, something weird happens and they may, they may bond to it, or or a dog or something At any moment. We know that that lion could rip that creature in half, but it doesn’t, why. Well, in that situation, maybe not be the best analogy because we don’t really know why, but it’s the, it’s the analogy, it’s the picture of the value of that right and and like. Well, how do you want to become those things? Well, first, having the courage to say, okay, maybe I like, okay, I’m not and I’m not okay with that Right, that courage in any capacity of life is strength. Just to start, just to do that piece, and then you, and then I think that we can take actions to further progress that strength and and that’s where this journey can continue. So, for what you just said, right, okay, I’m not, I want to be how do I begin to do that? Well, by asking that dang question right there, right, well, now, what, okay, well, what would make you feel stronger, what would make you feel more prepared to defend? Because there’s no guarantee that, with all the training in the world, that we will be able to do something. But to have the capacity to say, well, I’ve prepared myself to the best of my ability and I, and I did what I could to the best of my ability and I’ve trained myself so that I’m not completely useless in this situation. I may still wish I could have done more. I may still wish that I had more training, more capacity, more entered here, to have stopped some horrible thing that happens. But I don’t think that that is as healthy a response. If, then, it would be to go down this path that you’re looking at and then, if something happens, be like well, I’ve done the best I could, I’ve done the best I can since learning that I want to pursue this shift and develop the strength and develop this capacity. Right, it’s just, it’s a different story, and the question I would ask is like okay, I’ve done this analysis and I’m not content with the results, just like anything else. Well, what would make me start to see this differently? What actions do I need to take that allow me to begin to become a protector? Right, and like let’s, let’s look at protector real quick, because that’s like a really powerful word that I think is worth exploring in us. What’s the virtue of strength, what’s the virtue of being the lion versus the rabbit? Well, it started all this. Right, why be a monster? And yourself, constrained Protection? It’s protection, and protection is something beautiful, because, when things are bad, what is better than that? You know, like, what is better than like? As a kid, you needed the protector, and instead of having someone with a capacity to protect. They were just monsters, so you had to run. You couldn’t defend yourself. And you’re ready, like you’re ready, to shed that. You know and build the capacity that no longer allows that and even extraordinary situations, and one not only is that protection necessary for your own heart and mind. Right, okay, I can defend myself. That doesn’t have to happen again. Right, that’s the first gift of it. But the next gift is those who are less capable than you can benefit from your strength and protection, whether that be through conversation and encouragement, or whether that be through some extraordinary circumstance or something goes wrong and you’re able to step up and do something in line with your values, ideals and mission for your life. Right, and the reason I say that very specifically is I do not advocate that anyone goes out and looks for circumstances to become protectors, and I think that is incredibly foolish. And there’s this awesome book on violence written by this dude who, as a kid, defending himself, stabs someone like 70 times because like the guy was all jacked up on drugs and just like was continuing to beat the crud out of him and he like pulled out his pocket knife and just went to town, right, and now he’s regained all his, like he went to prison and everything and had to earn his way back, earn back his, all of his rights and everything because of how the circumstance is played out. And now he is a self defense coach. But one of the first things he does is like we have to stop ideologies, idolizing violence and pretending like it’s some sexy, fun thing, like when it comes down to like actual violence, there’s training and then there’s actual violence. And there are two different things. And he was just advocating like what is your mission, right? That’s why earlier I said my mission is to get my family home safely each night, right? So there’s a lot of things that I could involve myself in and apply my strength to and apply the training I have up to this point that I’ve been able to cultivate on this path. To cultivate more, that would be against that mission. That would that would be against those goals and ideals, right. And I think we just have to be cautious of that with a topic like this, because it’s not like let’s just go be rambos, but what actions can you take? What things can you do to start being? That is the first question and then, when something comes to mind, do that thing and then keep doing those things and keep adjusting course.

Brandon Seifert: 36:16
Right You’re kind of talking towards you’re not going to. If some altercation happens, you’re not just going to go jump in there for some reason and fight to make sure it stops. It’s all right, I’m with my family. Sometimes the best you know defense in the situation is just to get them out of that situation in the first place, not to actually go ramble out.

Jon Mayo: 36:40
I was talking to okay. I was just going to say, 99% of the scenarios I train for that involve my family. Like 99% of them involve getting out of the situation as swiftly as possible.

Brandon Seifert: 36:55
Getting them out of the situation swiftly as possible, breaking contact, getting away Right, and yeah, so, as you were saying, so I was listening to a podcast and in the podcast they were talking about being protectors and one aspect that the gentleman Chris mentioned is when they go out to dinner or something, he’ll always be the one facing the door and he basically takes stock of the place that he goes to. So he’ll one look for all exits and then, two, they’ll identify potential threats within the building, and not necessarily like threats as in hey, this person might shoot up the place, but threats in the mindset, saying, hey, if something were to go down, who are the people that if last resort, I could go to or my family can go to, that could seek protection? Then he identified that could be military men, it could be police officers or service uniform people. It could be. He even said like bikers, the big dude with all of the tattoos and stuff because when they’re out to dinner with their family they are the protectors. And you can very easily start spotting the people that have the potential to be dangerous by the way that they hold themselves. Any thoughts on those kind of things. Do you do any of those, or is that just something that that gentleman does?

Jon Mayo: 38:39
No, and you’re bringing out a and then the other element of it right, preparedness and situation like in awareness, right, being intentionally aware, and I was really hammering on the okay, how do I make my body as a vessel and prepare my mind as a, the construct, to be this thing right, like, what framework do I take action in and how capable am I to take action in these different types of scenarios? But the idea of preparedness and being aware and learning what types of things to look for and what is out of place in your environment, all those things I think are also critical and can start now, and that’s a really good point. I’m glad you brought it up. A excellent starting point that I would advocate beginning with is a book called, prepared by Mike Glover and Jack Carr, and it actually just came out fairly recently. It’s engaging, it’s fairly swift, but it does an excellent job. I think of, like a holistic, a myriad of things to prepare the mind, the body itself and your conditions, your environment, for success. If a tragic situation occurs, whether that be a natural disaster, a fire, a threat of violence and a vehicle accident, right, like tragedy is not just oh, there’s another deed and I’m going to have to beat them up? No, not at all, and that’s the other problem with the strength and the ability to protect. If we equip ourselves with things, then we may be able to be an asset to that car that just flipped over not the car, but the driver of a car that just flipped over. Right we made. There’s so many scenarios that don’t even start in violence but that would allow us to have an idea of what to do in the, perhaps the courage to do it in the case that there is some sort of a situation, a situation that requires action or someone dies, you know, and to that end, that prepared, like I said, by Mike Lover and Jack Carr, I think in excellent starting grounds to open up one’s eyes and mind, to, okay, walking into a room, counting the exits right, being aware of who’s there, see if there’s a strange behavior that stands out. I was just having a conversation with the director of security and crisis management for a group called the navigators and they have they’re an organization, nonprofit, they have missionaries all over the world and stuff and we were talking about how training people to understand their environment, right, if you’re in the Middle East at a marketplace, it’s not going to be uncommon to see a camel. If you walk into a Walmart here in Colorado Springs and there’s a camel outside, it’s going to catch your attention. Why? Because the environment that you’re in does not conducively support that anomaly. Right, if it’s somewhere out and you see someone and a bunch of you know they have a hoodie on and an overcoat and stuff, it’s kind of like why is that you do that? Well, that’s an anomaly, right. Right, I’m an anomaly. In the middle winter I’m walking around in a short-sleeved t-shirt. That’s way less threatening, it’s just weird. Right, so it’s. But yeah, those types of things looking for those pattern recognition like looking for deviations to what’s normal in environment, being aware of where your exits are, just positioning yourself so that you have good situational awareness and can scan and observe the room it’s not like you’re sitting there glaring at it, but just the ability to do those things all help to posture oneself, to be in a better position to respond to a situation. Well, right, that may or may never occur, and the hope is that they never do. Right, I’m gonna. Yeah, the hope is that the things don’t happen, but we’re prepared because if they do, we may not have the pain of regret of not having been able to do something, and we owe that to ourselves, whom we love and, I think, our fellow man, and I think it’s a responsibility that’s largely not advocated, abdicated and not upheld.

Brandon Seifert: 43:02
Right, and one thing that this is kind of leading me towards is the family aspect of this too, and has there been a actual conversation that you and your family have had on the leadership required for if these events ever happen, or if anything ever happened? This is what we do, or like, like, I know you get dumb boys, so I don’t know if you’ve gone into this kind of discussion on, hey, when you’re out and something goes down, this is the way that we should act, especially, you know, as a group or by yourself. Have you had those discussions yet?

Jon Mayo: 43:47
Absolutely, and we’ll continue to have them. We had like a tornado thing, right. Tornadoes almost touched down here and it was troubling. We were out, the kids were home and I called them and Jeremiah answered the phone and I said all right, you need to take your brothers, go to the cellar, bring the phone with you and do not come up until I call. And we had talked extensively about these different types of things and I told him I didn’t just tell him that and leave him the dark. I said there’s a tornado, we’re on tornado warning, this is what needs to happen. And he didn’t say why he didn’t say all this. He said understood, yes, dad. And we hung up and he did it. And the boys all sprung to. No one fought each other and they did it. Why? Because we had conversations that hey, if we’re home or we’re not, and there is a reason for us to say go to the cellar, you go. And if it’s a tornado, this is why, and if it’s this, this is why, and if it’s this, this is what we do. Right, we have a fire ladder upstairs. The boys set it up this last weekend. We’re testing it this weekend. So this is an ongoing position improvement type of thing. Why are we going to test the fire ladder? Well, if there is a fire and downstairs is locked, all of my kids are upstairs, without a contingency like that. What if I can’t get to them right? What if there’s? There’s only one way up and down? Traditionally, did I just lose my sons. Well, yes, if I don’t think like if we didn’t put any thought into this. But thankfully we’ve created a couple tools. We have fire extinguishers. We have this ladder that can be deployed from a window. We’re going to train the kids this weekend on how to use that so they can self deploy it. All four of them, right and one. How fun can that be?

Brandon Seifert: 45:42
You know, we don’t have to be like you’re gonna die you know, like it doesn’t be scary, but it’s okay.

Jon Mayo: 45:46
We know what fire does. Fire hurts. This is what we need to do and like we’ve worked, like the biggest thing we’ve trained them in to date not to give like a comprehensive list, right, but like that’s a fun example on the fire piece, it’s like, okay, here’s the fire extinguisher, here’s how we use it, here’s this ladder, let’s practice using it, right, because that’s going to also be a little scary because you’re going out a window, right. So let’s do that in safety, when it’s calm, so that you have a better idea of how to do it. If it’s not, you know. But the I think the biggest thing especially because a lot of my boys are younger that I’ve been working on training them with, is when, responding to a bad situation, can we do it calmly? And that’s where, like for me, this tornado thing. I was so proud of them because we’ve been working on that a lot. You know we’ve talked about when Eric got lost. Those were great opportunities that showed we’re have not prepared right, because we had not equipped them for hey, if you get lost, what do you do in the woods? That was a failure on my part to lead them and equip them properly. Well, they all know. Now, you know. And so the short answer is yes, we evaluate different types of situations, from getting lost to fires, to tornadoes, to something bad happens when we’re at a Walmart, right, there’s an active shooter or something. And we have very honest and candid conversations with our kids at a level that we think is appropriate, right, and that doesn’t cause them to live in fear based on our conversations, but they equip them to have an idea of what to do. They know what to do if they find a gun. They know what to do if they, if their friend, finds a gun and they’re out somewhere, right, and what like all that matters. And I was at lunch the other day with one of my sons no, we’re getting a coffee for Lindsay, because I had taken one of them fishing and we’re heading home. And while we’re sitting there waiting for the coffee, I was like hey, buddy, do you notice? Like do what types of seats do I pick when we’re in a restaurant? Right, he’s like you always like to sit, like with your back this way, or like looking at things. It’s like why do you think that is? And, just by engaging in the curiosity, as it was, say well, it’s important to know what’s going on around us, right? So, like I frame it in a manner that’s not like all right, son, something bad could happen and you could die. Well, it’s like that seems like a bad approach, but we do engage in conversations on mindfulness, attentiveness and what actions we can take when something bad does go wrong. And I do train. My children are familiar with death and reproduction and things like that, because we live on a hobby farm and I train them in Brazil and Jiu Jitsu, so they’re also familiar with violence, and we work to do that in a way that’s appropriate with their age, right and that allows them the freedom and joy of being a child, but also that’s aware and capable should something happen and God forbid, something happened where Lindsay or I are not there to support them, because that’s life, you know. And it goes back to this principle of do we need, do we want to try to protect our children from the world or prepare them for it? And it the choice we’ve taken in our home is we want to prepare our children for the world and we want to prepare ourselves for the world so that in any situation that we may engage in, we are an asset that can help navigate that situation better than if we were not involved, and hopefully that creates an opportunity for unity, life, love, peace and the creation of value, or at minimum, the preservation of those things. Thank you for listening to another episode of Thought Expeditions on the Be Relentless Podcast. If you enjoyed today’s show and found value in it, please pay it forward. You can do that by sharing it with someone who you think may find value in it as well or leaving us a five star review wherever you’re listening to this. If you want to learn more about the work on the Be Relentless Podcast, the book or Sisu stamina and all of the other cool things that we are doing in the ULA universe, go ahead and head on over to ulauniversecom and subscribe. Otherwise, thank you from the Be Relentless team and have a great day.

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