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063. T.E. : Overcoming Trauma and Embracing Transformation w/ Jon & Brandon

063. T.E. : Overcoming Trauma and Embracing Transformation w/ Jon & Brandon Be Relentless

How do you focus on building the new when you are consistently overwhelmed by your past? On this episode of Thought Expedition, we have an honest discussion about trauma, abuse and mental health. We explore how early life experiences shape who we are, and how we can heal from past hurts by better understanding our own behaviors and tendencies.You'll learn actionable tips for processing trauma in a healthy way, letting go of the past, and moving forward with self-compassion. We also discuss the importance of maintaining awareness of your inner and outer world."The secret of change is to focus all your energy not on fighting the old but on building the new." – SocratesIf you found value in the show please SHARE IT with someone you care about as well as SUBSCRIBE and RATE IT with a 5-Star Review! Ready to dive deeper? Visit ULAUniverse.com to explore more of the impactful work we're doing. Don't forget to use code 'BERELENTLESS' at checkout to enjoy a 10% discount sitewide!Do you have a question for us, want to be on the show, or have a recommendation for a guest or topic? CONTACT US HERE.We are grateful you joined us! Be Relentless is a Forge Publications LLC production and is proudly co-branded with the Universal Learning Approach. Copyright 2023. All Rights Reserved.

How do you focus on building the new when you are consistently overwhelmed by your past? 

On this episode of Thought Expedition, we have an honest discussion about trauma, abuse and mental health. We explore how early life experiences shape who we are, and how we can heal from past hurts by better understanding our own behaviors and tendencies.

You’ll learn actionable tips for processing trauma in a healthy way, letting go of the past, and moving forward with self-compassion. We also discuss the importance of maintaining awareness of your inner and outer world.

“The secret of change is to focus all your energy not on fighting the old but on building the new.” 
– Socrates

If you found value in the show please SHARE IT with someone you care about as well as SUBSCRIBE and RATE IT with a 5-Star Review!

Do you have a question for us, want to be on the show, or have a recommendation for a guest or topic? CONTACT US HERE.

We are grateful you joined us!

Do you want to learn more? Check out:

  1. The Universal Learning Approach & Sisu Stamina, Performance Evolved at: ULA-Universe.com
  2. The Book: Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be WayMakers.
  3. The Audiobook: Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be WayMakers.

Episode Transcript

Jon Mayo: 0:09
Holy, moly everyone. Today’s Thought Expedition was truly a deep dive push the limits, explore the boundaries type of exploration. We started with the quote the secret of change is to focus all your energy not on fighting the old but on building the new, which was sourced from Socrates, and we quickly developed from there the importance of reincorporating the elements of self that appear to be the enemy, so that we are better able, with singular focus, to build the new and from those concepts explored in depth to the best of our ability for now, both a deep dive into immediate actionable things that we can do and long iterative processes we can subject ourselves to as we work to learn to better extract the value in both the winter and the spring. So it was a blast of a conversation and before we jump in, I would ask that, if you have not gone over to theulauniversecom, that you would do so today and subscribe, because we are launching very, very soon. So, without further ado, let’s jump in, all right? Well, it’s time for another Thought Expedition. What are you thinking?

Brandon Seifert: 1:45
So this one is spurred on by a couple of different things. One after we just recently did a podcast and you shot me a quote and the quote is by Socrates and it says the secret of change is to focus all your energy not on fighting the old but on building the new. So I just kind of wanted to throw that out there because that kind of got me me thinking about just what has been going on lately. That paired with our recent podcast, particularly starting with episode 59, which was about the Sirens call. Episode 60 is about gratitude and finding the beauty and things around you, and then episode 61 was about fatherhood at least the majority of it was and it got me thinking about the different things that have happened in my life, starting all the way back in my childhood, and how those ripples are still affecting me today. So I’m going to be a little vulnerable. I don’t want to get too far into it because I don’t think that’s the purpose of this conversation. But, and also, if any family does ever listen to this, I want them to know that I love you all genuinely, like this isn’t me just kind of crapping on you, but my childhood since as early as I can remember was emotionally and physically abusive. I remember going back to preschool and dreading the time I would have to go back home from, from being beat, being told I was worthless, that I should kill myself for my own family. You know like there have been a lot of different things that kind of all kind of jumbled together to make the perfect storm of the person that I am today. Right, and I’ve noticed those ripples more and more trying to go down this journey. So, for example, one that I recently kind of understood was back when I was a kid. I had to walk through my house on my tiptoes because certain floorboards made creaks and if noise was made I would get beat. I still walk around in high tension moments or just around people that give me stress on my tiptoes. That’s just something I just naturally do, you know, and I’m sure I’ll find a lot more. You know, one that I actually recently I would say today I truly understood was every time I walk around a corner I grab the corner, and that’s because it was when I would walk around corners in my house I could stabilize myself, so I could better place where I was going and, like I said, I don’t want to go too far into like the things that happened, but I wanted to discuss. These are habits that I’m for or I have formed, and those are just like the physical things that I can’t just naturally think that I’m doing of. But you know all of the other habits and things that I’ve fallen into, from my depression, my social anxiety, you know I can’t. I can’t hang out with friends, you know, in a place that has more than 10 people or loud music, because of this kind of stuff, I just I go into panic attacks. The things that happened back then are still affecting me today and I’ve put so much energy into those things because I’m so blatantly aware of my shortcomings and I’ve put so much blame on those things that I still have trouble knowing that, yes, I’m taking a next step forward, but I’m still comparing myself and I’m still living in that same mindset of when I was little, you know, and so that that all goes back to the quote that you kind of gave me, and I’m wasting a lot of my energy fighting the old and not necessarily building the new. So so, one, I wanted to get your thoughts on breaking these habits, because I think they’re truly habits, you know, they’re ingrained into me. At these points, what I’ve been building for 24 years of my life that is, that is, the persona that I’ve had for the past 24 years is I’ve been this broken, depressed person who, for the first 15 years of my life was told to kill myself by the people that should have loved me. So what are your thoughts on breaking long form habits?

Jon Mayo: 7:15
Well, and we wonder why sometimes people struggle with suicidal ideations. Eh, yeah, yeah, let’s see, that was a lot, and thank you, let’s explore together. So if it’s based upon the premise, right, looking at the very powerful context of the personal battles that you’re engaging in as you are striving forward, right, and the realization that a lot of energy is being spent on trying to kill the older, destroy the old, instead of focusing on building the new, let’s see. I’d heard this quote a long time ago, but I didn’t understand it or know it until probably about a year, 18 months ago, and I said like I like to think that there’s three levels of knowing something. There’s no of something where it’s like, okay, I’ve read a quote and I consumed it. There’s knowing it which is like, okay, now I have a greater understanding or maybe it’s touched me in some way. And then there’s this like profound, deep level of knowledge where you become one with the understanding and I had lived a certain lifestyle six, seven, I think, years ago now that have led me to being a pretty broken, fragmented person. A lot of that spanned for my own childhood up through and decisions I made as an adult and when I had the moment of awareness and awakening and made the determination to set out and change who. I was right and I looked myself in the mirror and I said, okay, I see about 5% in there that I want to pull forward and keep alive the rest of you I’m burning off and I’m killing, I’m taking the sword too. I don’t think that was. It was a helpful tool because it did give me a means to get started right, especially when you’re talking about like a 95% changeover. That’s like all of who you are except for like the very most core strand. But I think that it would have been much better served with this being built into it much more heavily. And the idea I’m working towards here is a slight adaptation of the quote. I don’t think I should have gone after burning off the 95% and destroying it. I did need to burn off a lot of things, just let them go. I don’t want them to turn to ash and disappear. But what I also needed to do was look for the gold that emerged from the ashes. Right Went like in a forge when a precious metals put to flame. The dross, the filth, the impurities separate from the gold and you can siphon the gold out and you can separate the gold. And as I went through it, I wish I had, from the onset, been looking for the things that were surfacing and needed reincorporated into myself from the things that I was letting go over, burning out. And the reason I think that matters is because here we have the secret of change to focus all your energy not on fighting the old but on building the new, and say, well, in building the new, you need resources. And what happens if the resources you need are within the old, but they need repurposed or re-understood, re-identified. A new relationship needs built with them. Right and like, there were things that just need to be let go of and destroyed or okay, that’s unhealthy and it serves no benefits. I’m going to remove it or allow it to fade away, because sometimes it can’t even be a light switch. Sometimes it’s going to allow this to fade away by intentionally creating a light that’s brighter than whatever this darkness is. But there were elements of myself that about two years ago now roughly I began looking at more like Yin and Yang. Right, and with Yin and Yang, you have the black and the white. You think about day and night, land and sea, all these things. For every reaction there’s an equal and opposing reaction. And I realized that to become whole and healthy, we have to incorporate all of who we are, not selectively choose portions of who we are, as in choosing portions of who we are, we’re putting ourselves out of balance when we may need to incorporate an element of ourselves that may become a small or highly controlled element of ourselves, but is part of us nonetheless, and that part of us can help fuel the change that we wish to seek as we continue to move forward holistically, as a single individual, in pursuit of that which we ultimately want to be. And had I been able to understand that five, six years ago instead of two or you know right, when I had that moment of awareness, had I been able to understand that, I wonder how much further I’d be now if, at the same time, I set out with the sword against myself. I also set out with, like you know, the medical pack, the ability to do reincorporation efforts, healing efforts, right. If I had sought to heal and produce unity within myself up front instead of just removing the bad, I wonder how much faster or how much more wholesome this path would have been. So I think that in focusing on building the new. We need to put disciplined safeguards and initiatives around the things that are not helping us from the old, but also looking for the refugees and the on the other side of the line that need to reincorporate it into ourselves, the parts of ourselves that are the hurt self of the past or the enraged part of the past that needs processed and reincorporated, because then we create something that’s stronger because of it’s the whole and it’s the whole based from the sum of all of its parts. And I will say it’s a lot bloody harder to incorporate a negative element of yourself that you’ve grown to hate or have hated for a long time than it is to keep it at arms distance. But when it is reincorporated, especially in a way that you’re allowing it back in in a manner that is healthy, right, because that grown out proportions would have you. So you bring it back and you reincorporate it, you do begin to feel different and I’d say like you feel more whole. And it’s interesting because somehow even the corporation of those elements further progresses, the ability to focus the energy on the building, and I think it’s because the distraction of trying to destroy an element of yourself that’s now incorporated goes away and it’s probably a redirection of that energy back into the self and into the ideal that’s being pursued.

Brandon Seifert: 15:00
That was a lot processing. So the one thing that kind of keeps nagging back at me through all of that is how does one determine one, what is worth keeping, what is worth getting rid of, like putting in lead and just burn off. But also, how does one even initiate that? You know, like, how can, how can this identity that has been built for such a long time, how can you safely integrate that into who you’re trying to be, you know tomorrow, or you know because, because I can, I can hear the other voice. You know, in my head there’s, there’s always the good devil and little you know bad devil on our shoulders, and the bad ones Definitely a lot bigger, a lot louder, and so I just want to punch that guy, you know, shake him off. But also, what you said makes sense and, like you still have to, you’re still growing because of those those things that have happened, those those bad parts. It’s still always going to be part of you. You just have to re sculpt it and forge it.

Jon Mayo: 16:32
You know, yeah, how does one do that Holistically? I have no idea. But personally, anecdotally, it was a long iterative process that there was no shortcuts in, and on the one hand, I think that, like for tomorrow, right, like how do I act today, to be more of what I want to be, I think in that it’s, it’s the, the action, the actions that we can choose to take, that put us into those parameters, force, the friction that’s necessary for us to begin to be able to do the inner work. And in the in the last couple of months I’ve become a little bit better at like sitting and meditating and I realized, like I’m realizing over just the last week or two, that I’ve actually meditated for the last few years. But I always thought of meditation as like you’re sitting with you know, you’re sitting on a couch, or with your legs crossed, or would have you just sitting breathing, trying to think, and that is its own form of hell. But there’s gold on the other end of that fire, you know. So I’m pressing into what can I discover through that type of meditation? But I realized a different type of hell and purifying fire and fantastic form. Meditation was by running, really running for me like jogging, without distraction, without music or anything like that and just thinking. But running, walking, hiking, biking, the active, what I consider active meditation, right, maybe driving where you’re out and you’re doing something, and it’s just enough of a physical lift to scratch the itch of your body’s emotion, so like you’re kind of on a autopilot trajectory, which ends up like freeing the mind up a little bit more to process. And the reason I think this is relevant is because it’s like, well, I knew that when I made the shift. The reason I think it’s relevant is because to first sum that up then I’ll share an example is because there’s not a get a fix, this easy, quick type of solution. We can choose to vote for who we want to be, based on actions, and trust that over time that the actions we choose to partake in will begin to shape who we are and that that does happen. Right, and that’s the immediate thing we can do. But then the long term thing is well, how the heck do we incorporate this part, especially if it’s dangerous? How do we know if we should incorporate it or if it’s not? Which element of it is me versus just a problem? That is not me, but it’s hard because it’s confusing. So I have no idea what in this mess is me like, what in this period of my life, what in the past, what in this behavior I participated in now is some first, second, third order effect of who I am versus just dysfunction, right? And I think that that’s exactly the question what in here serves me in the life to live the life that I want to live? And is there an element and this is what I wish I knew a few years ago just to ask this question is there part of me in here that needs reconciled? Or do I just need to burn this out? Because I think, just in asking that question and then meditating on it over the course of days, weeks, months, everything kind of like filters to the top right, especially when you’re forcing yourself daily to face those things. And that’s like the piece, like if you just ask the question, go about your life, I don’t think it’ll do anything. But I was every single day meditating for over an hour a day through active meditation, through running predominantly, and training without distraction. So every single day I’d have to go on the road, be by myself, typically through a blizzard or decent heat, and think and these questions like, really, you know, I worked through a lot of demons on that road and one of the examples is when I made the decision, you know, six, seven years ago, when I was like, okay, I need to change. I’m going to change so that the 5% becomes the majority of who I am and I’m proud of who I am and happy about who I am, and then I can spend the rest of my life figuring out how to be that person, right, yeah, yeah, when I made that decision, I knew I was going to have to stop drinking. I knew it right then. But I was like I don’t have the strength to do this. I don’t. So that problem is going to go down the road and I’m going to find something I do have the strength to do. And so, even right there, I knew that there’s a behavior that was unhealthy, that was not part of me, but it represented an element of myself and such that my zeal for drinking also represented my zeal for life and my proportion to passionately pursue things to the extreme. It was a negative manifestation of that and it was also coping mechanism and crutch that I had used since I was 13. And there was a lot mixed in there and I just was like I know I can’t touch that right now, I didn’t have the strength to, so I focused on something I could and when I felt like I was able to successfully garner that, you know like, as years went on, like made huge life shifts, left one industry for another, went from one side of the country to the next, finally settled back here, and that’s when the road started calling me and I started using those daily active meditations right. And at that point the big life shifts have occurred enough that it was time to do the deeper inner work. The environment was appropriate, everything else is good. And in the deeper inner work, that’s where I had to begin facing some of the things that weren’t the easier, things that I felt I had the strength to deal with. And it was over the course of about nine months of consistently hammering away that I came to a breaking point where it’s like the only thing that the primary thing, the thing that I can most clearly see that stands between me and who I want to become now, is drinking right. And so, literally on the road, I made the decision to take 70 days off, which was the longest time I went without drinking outside of when the military forced me to since I was like 13. And then after that 72 days I was like, okay, that was pretty cool. It was like two weeks, 10 years, I’m going to take the next year off. So then I took the next year off and the strength had been built up to do that. And then it’s funny because I’ve taken little bits off, kind of like a more rap, a more rapid feedback cycle, right, feedback loop since then. And just today I announced to a group of men that I walk through life with closely that until I’m in a season, until provision begins to flow again for my house based on the work that I’m doing, right, until that switch gets hit, I will stay sober, minded and not drink at all, simply because I do not want the distraction, even if it’s sparingly or regularly, to exist for my mind to go to or yearn for, as I want to be eyes and ears wide open for what I’m walking through now without distraction, right, and all of that. I and all that to say it’s like the person who couldn’t even look to face it to the person now who’s like, okay, it’s time to hit the switch and publicly declare that to my family in my inner circle Like, hey, this, just so you know this won’t be happening until X, because that’s what I feel is important and necessary of me right now to be who I need to be. And so it was a monumental shift. But there came a point where I realized that it wasn’t drinking. That was the problem. It was my desire to escape and a whole bunch of myself that I was running from because I didn’t understand it. I moved the drinking, I was able to get past the, the, the ugliness, if you will, and sort through until I found the part of me that was defensively trying to protect a piece of myself that had been broken for a long time. And identifying that and being able to heal through that without the negative stimuli stimulus over the course of that year allowed me to really heal and the strength for now I still need to guard myself against old lifestyles creeping back in right, but the, the negative darkness of it, is no longer there. And in that context, the encouragement I would give is, like to someone who like, like to you, like, as we’re having this conversation, exploring these ideas together, is like man, you’re already on the path, like the fact that you are identifying, that you’re tiptoeing around these 10 situations because of this, because in the loud situations you’re not handling them. Because of that, those experiences growing up, grabbing the corners right for stability so you could better place your feet and minimize the silence because you don’t want beaten Like, the fact that you’re identifying those means you’re already doing the work. So one, it would be like stay the course to. It would be continuing the daily actions that allow you the freedom to think and process these things. And three, I guess to repeat number one stay the course but be give your like, allow yourself the grace to process it over time, but keep asking those questions because I’m still doing that Like I’ll be doing that till I fricking die, not like still as in it, if it’s, if it’s novel or something, it’s like that is something that I plan on doing till I die. And it’s releasing. I think part of the nature of it is in asking the question and releasing ourselves to be free to experience the response. And then, sitting in it and working through it, the answers begin to reveal themselves, until there’s these like moments of a week, you know these epiphanies that allow us to leap forward and otherwise we crawl. But those are the thoughts that come to mind initially.

Brandon Seifert: 27:00
So one thing that’s kind of jumping out of me is the is that the moment I don’t even know how I’m going to phrase this In my mind I thought happiness was one different thing. You know, I thought I thought there was the. Hey, I was sad, I worked on some things and now I’m doing better and that’s what happiness is. But just like you kind of described like no, that just got me to where I can even begin to start sorting through this stuff, and it’s not even it’s. I think I’ve been mistaking and becoming Okay with where I was again, because now I’m no longer having those thoughts and you know, living through the majority of this, and so I almost went back on autopilot and my brain just kind of shut down and it was like, hey, we’re safe here for right now, until questions and things begin to pop up, just like you know, having Epsom 59 conversation, you know where it starts, putting that bug back in my brain and I start thinking about these things. But I stopped thinking for such a long time and I thought that that was, that was the journey, you know, and now I’m just now realizing like there’s, there’s this whole other side of things that I need to To tackle and try to work through and and I’m not and I have made progress, but just talking to you right now it kind of made me realize that I’ve climbed a hill. And then I realized, oh hey, I never saw the mountain behind the hill, you know. And now I have this whole other side of things and this other journey. Now I actually have a place to put my feet right now to begin to climb. But I never even knew that that was on the other side.

Jon Mayo: 29:11
Yeah, there’s something to this like systematic cycle of journeying forward that I’m still working Like. I’m working to identify like the systematic elements of it, the process pieces, if you will, because in like the constant looping that is hopefully aiming upward right, the micro cycles as you progress forward. There’s like this apex of like a dead hang right, like if you picture a loop like a curly queue and or like a roller coaster, whereas a full like circle that you go around right, right, right at the top for a split second. There’s a complete dead hang right and, depending on your momentum, if you’re going really slow you’re going to really feel the dead hang and if you’re going really really fast you may not even notice it. But there is a debt, there’s a moment where you just completely transcend it in space and you’re in a dead hang before you continue down and through and build backup momentum to go climb again. And I think what we’re talking about is kind of in that dead hang right, you went from hell to good. And when you go from hell to good, it’s like, okay, wow, things are a lot better, holy moly. So you catch your breath, which I think that part’s fair. But, man, if autopilot is not like the bane of this type of existence, right? Because I just came across a quote the other day and I wasn’t able to find it real quick, but perhaps you’ll find it. Essentially, the idea of it was a man without a vision is destined to return to who he was. And another way of looking at it is you know, the person who sets out to sail without a destination essentially will go nowhere, right? Or who doesn’t know what port to which he sails will end up nowhere. And in both, in both instances, it’s like okay, we, it helps to have a aim, a direction to aim at and ideal to pursue, somewhere we’re wanting to go. But that doesn’t solve the problem of when you make a significant improvement and all of a sudden you feel substantially better, say, oh, now what? It doesn’t guard against that complacency of being at the oasis in the desert, if you will, in those refuel points. And I’m thinking that there might be a manner in which we can engage, knowing that, okay, we want to become this ultimate version of ourselves so that we can best stay, best stand for love and unity in our communities, so that we can create immense value and so that we can cultivate and lead maximized lives. Well, I’m going to go through good seasons, I’m going to go through success, I’m going to have accomplishments on this path that give me peace, especially compared to that which I experienced before. How do I safeguard and prepare myself in those seasons, because they have different challenges and different threats? Right, and they do, and I think that one we ought to truly enjoy and savor and drink in those good times. But also, I think it’s fair for us to ask a series of questions to keep our mind sharp of. Okay, as I drink this moment in, as I savor it, I experience to live this chapter this month, this, whatever time frame, it is to the best of its ability, because it’s so good compared to where I’ve been. What does continuing this journey look like? Not in the means of I have to have the next goal or next destination to be happy, but just being open to the fact of when will I notice that summer is turning to fall right? When are the seasons changing so that I can begin to become responsive? Because I am observant, and perhaps cultivating that observant nature will better equip us, in the high points, to be to one, enjoy them more fully because we’re drinking them in more deeply. But then two, to be better prepared for the transition and then the shift back into growth.

Brandon Seifert: 33:26
Right, and I got a lot to digest from this one, because, yeah, I’ve never thought about it. You know, it could be spring or summer out and never in. I thought that that’s that’s the goal. But there is, there is challenges to even just that. And the complacency definitely hit and took hold of me. But I thought that and that’s that’s awesome, man, I’m jumping around, I didn’t know what direction I wanted to go. I thought that this was the direction and then I realized I’ve been walking this way and I got there. Oh, I’ve missed the mark. That’s. That’s kind of what it feels like right now, like like I didn’t have a compass and I was. I was walking the way that I thought North was, and maybe I went northeast and I’m just off. Yeah, I just got to digest that.

Jon Mayo: 34:41
You know, the day analogy is a really good one, and it’s actually it’s very relevant for some of the stuff I’m walking through myself currently. And you don’t want to wear snow boots in the middle summer, right? A tool that saves your life in one in one situation can kill you in the next, yeah, right. And in the same way, like having a conversation about routine and what habits serve you well, none of those things, I think, are truly like permanent, like, though, I don’t think waking up. For example. For a long time I was waking up at three thirty. That’s what served me for almost two years. Then it stopped because a lot of my circumstances changed and no longer was it helping create the productivity. Instead it was creating apathy and despair and dysfunction, and that’s because the equation had changed. It’s like well, why would you keep playing the game if the rules changed the same way? Or why would you keep trying to solve an equation the same way if the equation itself changed, right? So I think that there’s even this. I think that there’s a freedom that comes when we allow ourselves to say OK, I’m going to, I see a tree on the horizon and that looks to be north, I’m going to push that tree and then when I get to that tree, I’m going to recheck my azimuth the direction that I’m traveling and see how north, how far north, it really is, or if I’ve gone off course because it looks like north from here, but maybe it’s not. Once I’m there Maybe it is. So then when you get to that tree, you do that check and you realize, like you just said, oh man, I’m off course. It’s not what I thought it was, or it’s not precisely what I thought it was. But now I have information that allows me to tighten up and adjust my actions to get to a true north right. That, I think, needs replicated consistently daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, annually and periodically, as the impulses allow, to whatever capacity we can see it. Because the more aware we become at observing and checking the manner in which we’re traversing through life, the more I think that we will be able to competently stay the core like, stay on the true direction that we want to travel Right and in so doing, be able to Live a more fulfilling life right. But at the same time, it’s not just the direction but the tools that we’re using. It’s the manner in which we’re engaging with every element of it. That can all be Exchanged, you know. So it’s like well, does this tool serve me in this time? No, okay, what tool does you know? What habit, what method you know? Is it running, or is it jujitsu? Is it waking up earlier, staying up late? You know which element best serves me now and for this time, and then, like, the next chapter may be different, right, and so on and so on. But being able to have the freedom to say, okay, I can exercise discipline in many ways, that helped me lead a better life. But what are the ways that best serve me now for what I’m experiencing? I think there’s a lot just in that question, especially when we’re looking at oh man, I’m in a good season. How can I be disciplined in observing what’s happening outside, around me and inside myself so that I know when it’s time to take action towards the next step? And perhaps that cycles back into the active and intentional meditation and thinking and asking those questions of self and allowing them to simmer. Right, but being eyes and ears wide open and hands open, ready to receive, is that it frees us to do that precisely.

Brandon Seifert: 38:35
I didn’t realize until this conversation that I’ve been so content just existing, that I turned off my thinking and that I don’t know, man, that I’m still having a hard time like processing that right now, because I’m not, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not. I don’t know, man, that I’m still having a hard time like processing that right now, because how long have I been doing that? You know, I’ve been doing that for probably since at least the beginning of this year. You know, I would even argue, maybe going back to October, because I hit a high and then I just tried to stay there and stay in that song. You know, I never, I never thought that, and part of part of me is always questions like the people that really have their shit together. Do they just find what works and it just happens to work out for the rest of their life? Because for some reason, I, going through this, I think that that’s what I thought. You know, I didn’t think about seasons of change. Even through all of our discussions. I thought John’s figured out some fucking mathematical equation and and he’s working some shit out, and he’s he’s got to go and it’s going to work forever.

Jon Mayo: 40:05
Well, what I would say is is true in that is that there’s an equate, there is a method of working it out. Yeah, not that you’re in the sun the whole time, yeah, so, like you’re right, no, no, I don’t think anyone stays in the in the golden sunlight the whole time, absolutely not. But, yeah, but to be silly, I think that people who more or less appear to have it more figured out than others, one probably have the humility to say I don’t have the shit figured out and truly believe that I don’t. But this is what’s working right now. Yeah, because there’s beauty in the temperance of knowing it’s not working because that keeps. It’s like who moved my cheese? If I don’t expect the cheese to be there every day in the same place to feed me, then when it’s not there, I’m ready to go looking immediately. That is very good for me, right? So it’s like when I think that the people who seem to navigate life with some air of like Midas is golden touch or what have you? Or they seem to have figured it out Now, perhaps it’s the fact that they have a system to steward and manage well the good times and the courage, strength, ccu, endurance, what have you to navigate the hard times with grace and wisdom to the best of their ability. And which is more inspiring? I don’t know. I think both are in many ways, but there’s something to like. So much of all of this is how do we act admirably in a way that inspires life, love and unity when we walk through the dark of night and the deadly cold of winter?

Brandon Seifert: 42:04

Jon Mayo: 42:07
Because in being able to do those hard things well, perhaps we’ll be better equipped to manage to the joy of summer. All that much, that much more. Thank you for listening to another episode of Thought Expeditions on the Be Relentless podcast. If you enjoyed today’s show and found value in it, please pay it forward. You can do that by sharing it with someone who you think may find value in it as well, or leaving us a five star review wherever you’re listening to this. If you want to learn more about the work on the Be Relentless podcast, the book or CCU stamina and all of the other cool things that we are doing in the ULA universe, go ahead and head on over to ulauniversecom and subscribe. Otherwise, thank you from the Be Relentless team and have a great day.

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