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057. Thought Expeditions: The Ship of Theseus Paradox, A Gateway to Understanding Personal Change w/ Jon & Brandon

073. Joe Bogdan's Insightful Take on Personal Sovereignty and Self-Awareness Be Relentless

Today I had the pleasure of embarking on an insightful conversation with Joe Bogdan on living life with purpose and self-awareness. As a leader in the US Air Force, Joe shares his mantra that "better has no finish line" and how we can all take control of our lives. We explore:- Joe's journey to discovering his life purpose and passion for helping others reach their potential- Practical tips on increasing self-awareness and aligning actions with core values – Why Joe believes personal sovereignty and self-leadership are key to living an intentional life- How Stoic philosophy has shaped Joe's approach to resilience and growthWith over 22 years of military experience, Joe brings a wealth of leadership lessons from his diverse roles around the globe. He's a sought-after speaker on personal development topics and holds multiple coaching certifications. Join us for an inspirational discussion on what it takes to lead yourself and live with relentless purpose!Want to know more about Joe? Joseph “Joe” Bogdan is the Chief of Enlisted Force Development, Headquarters United States Air Force, Pentagon, Arlington, Virginia. In this capacity, he leads and coordinates enlisted leadership and developmental efforts to address the Secretary, Chief of Staff, and Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force priorities. He oversees strategic initiatives and shapes foundational policy, programs, and guidance to advance the education, training, growth, and readiness of over 410,000 Total Force Airmen.With more than 22 years of military service, he has a wide array of leadership experience in the engineering, communications, and social services career fields and has employed his skills at multiple assignments across the globe. Driven by his passion to help others reach their professional and personal goals, he continues to be a mentor to hundreds and is a sought-after speaker and instructor on a variety of topics to include resilience, management, and leadership.He holds instructional certifications in multiple courses to include Franklin Covey’s The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, Shipley Communications’ Four Lenses, and is a Master Resiliency Trainer certified at The University of Pennsylvania.  He is a certified Leadership Coach, he holds an undergraduate degree in Social Sciences with a minor in Homeland Security from the University of Maryland University College and earned his graduate degree in Organizational Leadership at Brandman University where he is currently an adjunct professor of both undergraduate and graduate leadership studies.Joe is also a co-founder of The Llama Leadership website and a host of the Llama Lounge podcast that explores topics on all things life, learning, and leadership.  You can reach out to Joe at the Llama Leadership website at http://www.llamaleadership.com, on his LinkedIn page at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jybogdan/, or by email at If you found value in the show please SHARE IT with someone you care about as well as SUBSCRIBE and RATE IT with a 5-Star Review! Ready to dive deeper? Visit ULAUniverse.com to explore more of the impactful work we're doing. Don't forget to use code 'BERELENTLESS' at checkout to enjoy a 10% discount sitewide!Do you have a question for us, want to be on the show, or have a recommendation for a guest or topic? CONTACT US HERE.We are grateful you joined us! Be Relentless is a Forge Publications LLC production and is proudly co-branded with the Universal Learning Approach. Copyright 2023. All Rights Reserved.

Ever wondered when a person’s identity actually changes? Is it a slow and gradual process or does it happen when every aspect of one’s old self is replaced? Let’s embark on a Thought Expedition as we explore the Ship of Theseus Paradox, applying this ancient Greek riddle to the concept of personal development. We’ll delve into when and how transformation occurs, tackling this conundrum both from the perspective of an individual and an organization. The transformation journey can be tricky to navigate, but don’t worry, we’ve got some keen insights to share.

Becoming the person you aspire to be involves a conscious choice and plenty of effort. We’ll unpack the power of choice in personal growth and discuss the role of others’ perceptions in shaping our identity. Join us as we discuss the use of affirmations to maintain self-awareness during transformative journeys. We don’t stop at that; we shift gear to discuss our thoughts, words, and actions, and how these elements define who we are. We offer practical steps on creating a “hit list” for personal development, emphasizing its importance as a corrective tool for growth and a way to reassess who we are. Brace yourself for 30 minutes of deep and thought-provoking conversation that might just trigger your own transformation journey.

Thank you for joining us!

If you found value in the show please share it with someone you care for as well as subscribe and rate it!

If you have a question for us, want to be on the show, or have a recommendation for a guest or topic, reach out to us HERE.

Do you want to learn more? Check out:

  1. The Universal Learning Approach at: ULA-Universe.com
  2. The Book: Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be WayMakers.
  3. The Audiobook: Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be WayMakers.

Episode Transcript

Jon Mayo: 0:09

Hello everyone and welcome to the very first of a new series called Thought Expeditions. In Thought Expeditions we will typically, on a weekly basis, explore one to three topics, ranging from serious to silly, as we work to apply the mentality and manner of living that we express throughout the Be Relentless podcast and book to the topics that we explore. Thus the title Thought Expeditions. One of the things that really excites me about this sub-series is it originated from Brandon. He had the idea, brought it forward, we high-fived on giving it a try and now we’re launching it in full force. And when I say full force I don’t mean, hey, we’re going to give you one a week for the first episode. No, this week and this week only short of something exciting in the future. That makes me change that. We’re launching three episodes. So stay tuned today, wednesday and Friday for the first three episodes of Thought Expedition. Now, without further ado, today’s topic, the very first one, is a one-and-done conversation around the ship of Theseus and how that concept applies to personal development. In one quick note, i acknowledge that my audio quality is struggling a bit in the first episode, but rest assured it is corrected. The second episode onward of the Thought Expedition series. So, without further ado, let’s jump on in. Yeah, so here we are. How are you doing, man?

Brandon Seifert: 1:50

Doing good man. Week’s been a little filled with some tension, but overall not too bad. How have you been?

Jon Mayo: 1:59

I’ve been great Slammed, running a thousand miles an hour, loving every second of it. It’s been a very interesting, bright, full schedule. And what’s kind of exciting about today is you brought the idea forward of like, hey, what if we had some intentional, shorter form conversations around a topic to a few topics that you took the responsibility to bring together for us to talk about on a more regular basis and explore, kind of within the overarching context of bereavellowness? And that is why we’re here today to do that for the first time and see how it goes. So what are you thinking?

Brandon Seifert: 2:37

So this week is kind of spurred on just by my personal thoughts this week. Have you ever heard of the Ship of Theseus?
Jon Mayo: 2:48

Not based on what you just shared.

Brandon Seifert: 2:50

Okay. So I guess kind of just jumping around real fast. The reason I thought of this was because at some point within the last week the internal thoughts kind of got to me. I started thinking very negatively about myself, about things kind of going on And in the best way I could say, i kind of just shadowed myself a little bit. So the reason that I started thinking about this is my buddy, jeremy. We used to have kind of philosophical debates and just different kind of conversations, and one of them was about the Ship of Theseus. So Ship of Theseus for those who don’t know and I’m probably going to butcher it, so hopefully I don’t too bad, but basically it’s the King of Athens had a ship and over time the ship started to age, crack, wear down, be damaged, and parts of the ship eventually got replaced. The planks of wood were removed, but the thing is, over time the entire ship was replaced. So the question remained is this actually still the Ship of Theseus? I think about this in the same kind of context. I think that you would assume the forge you know, where you have to tear yourself down, take something that’s damaged, broke and replace it. But my thought on this was and I thought quite a bit about this. When does one decide that they are no longer the thing that they thought was damaged or broken or losing value? Right, you know, just like the ship. Eventually the entire ship was gone, but at one point does it ever stop being what it was. Or is it still the thing? Because that’s what everyone knows it? as You know, over the centuries and probably decades, the people that were there living through that time, they all knew it as the Ship of Theseus, right? So would it ever change? And what context of that is the? the identity? What one does the identity of the ship? or, in my case, who has been struggling with trying to build a better version of myself? When does that identity change? Because the past identity of the old, broken version of myself still feels like it’s here. But I also know that I’ve been replacing the boards, so I don’t know if you have any thoughts on that.

Jon Mayo: 5:43

So far And I know I’ve been kind of jumping around, but No, it’s super interesting And while you’re talking, i pulled up, just for a quick reference, what the ship of thesis is about, per the interwebs and all that stuff, and you’re pretty spot on. It’s essentially the thesis paradox, which is a thought experiment that raises the question of whether an object that has had all of its components replaced remains fundamentally the same object, right, right? And immediately, as you’re talking, i was thinking that, ok, well, we have the thought experiment, the ship itself, right, if every timber is replaced, is it still the same ship? Then I was thinking about well, how about organization? is the US Army as it was established, like as it stood 100 years ago, the same army as it is today, despite every single person having changed, right? And then you’re bringing it to the personal level, the individual, and what comes to mind pressing into this. That’s pretty interesting, because what we’re talking about is identity, right, right? Yeah, so what point does the identity change? And I think that, in the same way that it does with the ship as it does with the individual, is that is its choice, of those who are participating with it. Because the way I’m pursuing it right now is, if I look at myself and just make this personal and introspective who I was five years ago and who I am today are significantly different people as far as performance, functionality, integrity, the things that I want right, the things that have been cultivating, feeding. I’m in more extreme version of what I was pursuing five years ago, today And further along the path of defining it, things like that. That being said, i’m still the same person in that I’m struggling with the same insecurities. I still struggle with the same weaknesses, the same opportunities to trip up and fail. However, hopefully, in some capacities, at a lesser extent and in some capacities, probably just the same, but I’ve put, hopefully, better safeguards in place. So, when we’re exploring this idea of you looking at yourself and, like you’re saying, you’ve been shatting on yourself, at what point do you stop shatting on yourself? Is that kind of what you’re working towards?

Brandon Seifert: 8:22

Yeah, putting a lot of effort in, but there’s definitely those days, weeks at this point, month where it seems like nothing is going right, even when I’m trying, and so breaking out of that identity which is telling me that I’m falling backwards is the trick of it all. I’m having a hard time breaking back into the momentum that we initially established through false, potentially observation of self.

Jon Mayo: 8:59

False and the positive or negative.

Brandon Seifert: 9:03

False and the negative. I’m seeing myself just like I’ve always have. I’ve been very harsh And that harsh voice is just getting a little bit more louder than everything else. That was a couple months ago, just like the highs and lows, and over time the lows get a little bit better, a little bit higher, and then it eventually kind of stabilizes. Right now I’m just in a dip. I know I’m in a dip, but it’s just prolonged longer than most others in the past year.

Jon Mayo: 9:39

Yeah. So one of the things you’re referencing I think it’s helpful to point is when you focus on controlling what you can and moving towards the ideal that you’ve set for yourself or I’ve set for myself, etc. If you picture this bar graph that there’s a heartbeat kind of going in between and there’s a median line between the top line and the bottom line And the goal is to in like the top line is super happy and the bottom line is super depressed and the middle line is content right And content, then the goal that you’re discussing is shrinking the distance between the super happy, the super depressed towards content, so that as you are going up and down on this roller coaster, it becomes a less extreme drop to the lows and a less extreme peak to the highs right. It’s less chaotic, it’s more consistently in line and closer to hugging that contentment line in the middle right. So we’re talking about that here And you’re talking about being in a dip for now a month and you’re fighting to climb back up into the high right Right And into the contentment. And one of the things that we’ve talked about is we want over time, like if you go out and have a rager and drink a bunch. That night you’re going to be way on a spike up on the high side, and then the morning comes, you’re hung over and now you’re way plummeted down. You’ve had this extreme difference right, opposed to a week where you eat well every day, you train every day and you don’t do that, and now you’re way tighter towards the content of the line right. So like just reframing that in our minds, i think mood follows action here and that’s at least how I would have to engineer myself. And, frankly, right now, specifically with the season, i’m in right, seeking to grow my business, seeking to advance the work that Kirk and I are doing, that you and I are doing, seeking to see if I’ll need to employ them in again or where I could partner with another organization to serve them, since I’ve made the conviction based stance to leave my previous employer right. It’s one thing to do that. It’s one thing to get peace and doing that. It’s another thing to walk day in, day out without the provision of that paycheck and remain positive and action oriented and value creating oriented right. So, like I can, i’m like relating to this precisely right now, in that how am I controlling a mindset that is not anxious, that is action oriented. That’s positive, that’s grateful for where I am, despite being in unknown territory and scared right. And what I’m doing is every morning when I wake up. I have developed this living document that I reflect on first thing when I wake up, and then I have maintained the habits that have made me happy in the past. So I train, i am watching what I eat, i am continuing in the communities that I’ve been a part of. I’m not allowing any of that to drop off, and the hours I spent working before I’m spending working now on these other pursuits networking, building the business, those types of things, right? Well, why do I share that? I think it’s directly related to what we’re talking about here. A lot has changed in the last month and you’re describing that you feel like you’re pulling up on this thing. You’re wondering when does it change? when you stop seeing yourself as this negative version of yourself that you don’t like, right, when you start to appreciate the value that makes you feel more alive. Is that fair?

Brandon Seifert: 13:13

Yeah, that’s fair.

Jon Mayo: 13:14

Yeah. So to that I would say mood follows action in many ways right, and with the gained understanding that I have of you following our conversation with Noble Gibbons, the EQ gangster, right, i know that’s like okay, cool, if I could just do it, i’d do it right. And by no means am I being flippant and saying, yeah, if you just you just choose to stop having a conversation like that’s an unhelpful pursuit for us. So what can we do that is helpful? Well, if mood follows action, which I do believe it does, then can you intentionally lean into actions that drown out the negative voice over time by replacing it with, say, the positive inner voice. And what comes to mind there is you know that there’s a couple of actions that are unsexy that if you just do them every day, it helps, right. If you just train every day, that’s a vote of you taking, of you exercising sovereignty over your life. If you meal prep for the week, that’s a vote for the whole week that you’re taking sovereignty, exercising sovereignty over your life for who it is you’re wanting to become right And who you want to be. The only missing element that I’m suspecting you’re not doing from our previous conversations is have you developed that living document where you’re stating who you are and who you want to be and the types of things that that person does. As I am this and I do this So that every morning you can have that essentially that positive affirmation, or that meditation moment where it’s like I choose to be this today and I am this for choosing that, and now, as I rise, i’ll go forth and do it Like do you have? have you been doing that?

Brandon Seifert: 14:57

I’ve started. It’s more of a list at this point, like kind of like a shopping list at this point.

Jon Mayo: 15:01


Brandon Seifert: 15:04

I struggle with yes, I say that I’m this that negative brain continues to tell me that I am not being integrity filled, that I am lying to myself, that the things that I am doing don’t match up with this, this far out being that I choose to be or want to be, And so I’m pursuing them. But I’m still hearing the that, that falsehood, that negative saying that I’m not doing those things. I’m not looking at the world with these open, fresh eyes, like I want to, where I’m trying to find the creativity and beauty. I still find myself going through the motions, or, just you know, time will blank out as I’m not being conscious of what I’m going through.

Jon Mayo: 15:56

Yeah, i exploring that like there’s the unaware actions in the aware right. So, like what immediately I’m thinking through is okay, if you’re, I look at the world through rise. That’s in beauty, something like that’s why I just picked up from you.

Brandon Seifert: 16:09


Jon Mayo: 16:10

Okay, you know, if that’s not the case and you’re immediately attacking yourself for this is a true yet you could like. The alteration could be I choose to look at the world in this way, right, and then when that voice is like, no, you don’t, then you can have that internal dialogue of shut up. I’m choosing to right now. Shut up, go away. What beautiful thing could I find around me right now? Or do I have to walk out of this building to see pike speak, to see something beautiful? right, like, and the reason. And this is not an easy fix And by no mean is there just a light switch that we can turn on that’s going to fix this. So, like, on the one hand, it’s like okay, here’s a tool that we can do, we can use the power of choice so that, when we’re engaged in this negative cycle and dialogue and that’s occurring once we become aware that it’s happening we can say ah, it’s happening, stop, i choose this. You could even pull it on your phone, read it again. Maybe you read it 10 times for the first couple months, who knows, right A day, but you read it again, you go forth and you take some small action. That’s a vote towards what you’re choosing to become. Right, that that’s a tool that we can apply in the pursuit of it. But at what point does the ship no longer become the ship of these? yes, or whatever organization or individual? I think it. I think that’s the power of choice of whatever entity has authority over the objecting question is how I pursue, not as a definitive answer but as a exploratory hypothesis right, if the ship was sold from these yes, to someone else. Right, then maybe they rename it and therefore give it a new identity and from that point forward, it’s. You know, some remember that it once was this different ship, but then, over the course of a year, people start talking about it and start talking about it under its new name and its new ownership. Right, the rebranding is complete In the same context. Why would that not be the same for the individual?

Brandon Seifert: 18:25

Right? No, because it’s all the. it’s all the perception based off of the individual looking at it. By that I mean, you know, it’s the people that think that it’s the ship in the first place that makes it the ship. If I had the ship and I replaced everything in it but I kept all of the old lumber, if I were to build the ship of these years with the same like the original one but it looks like crap, but everyone knows that it’s this other thing, it’s the perception that keeps that alive, if that makes sense. So, like you said, if it was to be rebranded as something else, you know, just like the list that you talked about, Over time the power of believing it is this other thing will slowly be pushed towards that being the reality, as long as that’s the perception that’s pushed and that you’re striving towards. So that makes sense.Jon Mayo: 19:34

And I didn’t I didn’t say pulled in and chosen and accepted right, like for as an individual it, like, as for my own walk, reflecting on my own life. It took years of me hammering out these things to realize one day, like, frankly, i just realized this month that the person I sit out with no idea even what to pursue five, six years ago, right became more definitive and defining about two years ago. Two and a half years ago, i realized that this month I had become that person. I had no idea at what point it changed. I just was so focused on working to become that person that all of a sudden this last month actually this last week, because it was Friday night it finally clicked like holy crap, i’ve become the person I’ve sought out to become. Now that doesn’t mean like the journey’s over, destination’s done. No, there’s. There’s a whole new horizon to pursue. There’s an endless amount of work to continue to climb to become the version of myself I want to be. But the person I set out to become years ago. I just realized two and a half years later holy crap, i’m that person now. How cool And accepting that actually became the bull during the path, the obstacle for me continuing to progress, because I didn’t want to accept that, for whatever reason. Right, it was easier for me to be like, no, i’m working to become that. It’s like, no, you are that. And until I accepted, holy crud on this. Now, this new thing, now I can truly define what this next leg of the chapter is and what these next things I’m searching are, and that gives me life to the continuation of this process, because it’s not stale and it’s not already accomplished. Right, it was this really beautiful thing, but it took two and a half years and such hyper focus on rebranding me to me that it to who knows at what point I became that and how long it took me after that to realize it. Right, i don’t know. Okay, six months ago I’ve been in delusion and didn’t realize till this weekend. Right, i don’t know at what point in the two and a half years I had become this new version of myself that I wanted to be, and I’ve continued beyond that, right, but the acceptance in realization just occurred. And if that, i think that speaks to kind of like the more slow burn emotional effect of what we’re talking about, of like, okay, at what point does it become definitive? at the point that you can stomach it and believe it to be true. You know the universal you. Until then, until it doesn’t feel true, then the work’s not done And we have to press in harder and we have to do more. That’s kind of what’s coming to mind.

Brandon Seifert: 22:18

So, with that recent shift for you, how did you get past the idea that, no, i need to continue to grow, i’m not there yet. What was the deciding factor, if there ever was one? What led you to that decision? to say you know, i am that person, but I got more room to go. you know, i got another mountain, that I crest this hill, you know.

Jon Mayo: 22:39

And to be crystal clear, by no means do I feel like I’ve arrived in any sense of the word. I just don’t want that mistaken. But I’d said a couple of attributes Like I wanted to be. I wanted to be a man of integrity. I wanted to be someone who could take the hard stance if they believed it to be right. And A, b and C and D, and I had this list right And, like I mentioned, i left. I had resigned my position I’m a previous employer as VP of that company because of conviction and what I believed to be the right thing, what I believed to be the last act of genuine, authentic leadership. I could provide the team that I was interested with serving there And I realized that I could do a vote of dissatisfaction and rejection by leaving and that that was really the only thing I had the opportunity still to do to combat some of the things that I was, i was not in agreement with. When the dust settled in through the last, you know, since processing that decision, i was reflecting on what’s occurred over the last couple of years. Then, after that night of reflection, in the morning I woke up and went through my morning meditation and I realized, like the things that are stating I am or I’m choosing to do, i could. I was immediately recalled the list of things that I had just kind of like gone through my mind as having done over the last 18 months, and I was just staring at the proof of my actions over the last 18 months, demonstrating that these things that I remember distinctly saying I want to be this, therefore I’m saying I am, this had finally become true and no longer was I faking it to make it. But it was true Now. Is it 100% true and perfect? Absolutely not, and that’s where the work continues. But it’s more true than not. True that I am these things And because of that, where a few years ago it was so not close to that right, so now that, like the majority of me, seems to be more in that line, that’s how I realized it’s like, okay, i’m staring in the face the fact that the history of what I’ve done over the last 18 months and looking at all my actions my personal, professional and communal lives right have reflected a uniform version of myself that is in line with these ideals that I stayed. And if what you do is who you are, ultimately right, going back to the whole adage what you think becomes what you say, what you say becomes what you do, and what you do is who. You are right. Then I can look at 18 months of what I’ve done and say, okay, this is an hour refunction of who I am. And that analysis showed me that I needed to raise the bar, press it further and accept the fact that I’d accomplished some of the goals I’ve set out to do and had a whole new list of goals to continue pressing into. Does that make any sense or is it too vague?

Brandon Seifert: 25:34

No, that makes a lot of sense And I think it just proves that change is inherent, as long as you are driven towards the things that you want to be and do. That’s the power of the list, And I don’t think I fully grasp that possibility. You know, I kind of just took it as oh, you say what you want to be and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and it’s all dreams and cute, cute wishes and stuff. But no, it’s a mild marker. It’s a way to measure yourself against who you were the day before. It’s a multi-functional problem. Yeah, absolutely.

Jon Mayo: 26:09

It’s a multi-functioning tool, because if what you think is what you say and what you say is what you do, and what you do is who you are, well, how the heck do you control what you think? Yeah, you control what you think And, unless you’re in a moment of consciousness, you control what you think, i think, by that which you consume mentally to feed your thoughts and that which you allow yourself to say. So the best immediate, short, like short feedback loop of what you’re thinking is the words you’re saying, and typically it’s after you say something, or like you’re washing your hands in the bathroom and you realize that you’re thinking a certain way and you get this moment of awareness, right. But or you’re talking to someone, you say something, or holy, that’s super negative. Boom, moment of awareness, right. Well, how can you then change your thoughts? Well, maybe you feel like crap and you don’t want to say something positive right there, right, and maybe you don’t even have the strength to say something positive right there, despite wanting to try. That’s where that tool comes in of. Okay, i have intentionally created my own hit list that I’m going to manifest into reality through deliberate action and intentional which, by the way, deliberate action can include reading it and stating it to oneself. Right, i can now read this to myself as an intentional act to reclaim that this is who I’m choosing to be, now that I’ve caught myself thinking in a way that does not align with this, and that’s where it becomes a corrective tool. And the reason I think it needs to be a living document is maybe this week either you have to add this clause and next week that clause doesn’t make sense, right? Maybe it’s good for six months, and then literally one word needs to change one of your causes because you’re like this just isn’t true, but this isn’t as good as I want it to be. But if it’s able to be updated like that and you realize that your thoughts are betraying who you want to be or your actions are betraying who you want to be, you can kind of backwards hack your thoughts by deliberately choosing to state something And in one action, determine a correction in both your behavior, your speech and your thought process, and that iteratively, over time, slowly steers the direction of the ship and shifts your personal overton window of who you are right. At least that’s what I believe after what’s been walked through and what we’re exploring.

Brandon Seifert: 28:35

Okay, yeah, and I mean it sounds like I got a little bit of homework for myself to do And I have to get more deliberate with what I have. It can’t just be thought of as a shopping cart of who I want to be. I’m not just that. I got to be very intentional And then I also got to make sure I have it at all times. So maybe phone notebook tab on there.

Jon Mayo: 29:05

That’s where it is on mine And the only other thing that I think would be helpful with it, or that I realized the things in mind that I could not put a action to in the day, I ultimately deleted out of it. So if I talked about I’m going to exercise self-control over my voice and my response to my children, that’s very applicable. Every single day I can immediately see a reflection of myself when I raise my tone because I’m losing my temper, Or when I read it the next morning at the latest, I’m like dang it. Yesterday I would have not lived up to this. So there’s always an action that goes with that thought, with that response. If it’s like I’m going to be a millionaire, Well, I’m not going to wake up tomorrow and be a millionaire. What I do today may, over time, make me a millionaire, but it’s not like now I have the millions. So for myself, it’s like I think that if the clauses can be substantiated with some action, no matter how small, then they are real. And when that voice comes in to say you’re lying, it’s like no, I did this today, I took action towards this today. I am this Try not. And it allows the freedom and the backup to do that, no matter how small, And then it’s just a matter of patience, long suffering and being relentless in the pursuit of it Right.

Brandon Seifert: 30:27

Yeah, right, yeah. And what’s coming back at me is the podcast we just recently had with Kirk and trying to provide yourself with if you can’t say a word or take a step, sometimes you just need to create that pause, that moment to give yourself enough room to eventually think your way out of it. And that’s 100% true with what we’re talking about, because I think and it’s been the long running thinking and I’ve had where I got to make big, powerful strides But even just doing the smallest thing that can hit a single point on a list, on my shopping cart list, you know, will put me in the right direction to have the confidence to say that I’m continuing forward the next day. And I can’t lie to myself If I’m, even if I try, i know that in truth I took a step, even if it was a small one, in the right direction.

Jon Mayo: 31:30

And that’s where the super popular adage of a percent a day right. One percent a day. The bottom line is overtime. At some point center mass is shifted, at some point the preponderance of your actions catch up and momentum is built. It’s like starting the flywheel right. It takes the most amount of energy to get it moving and then, once it’s moving, it just keeps going with much less involvement. And when you’re working to start the flywheel, yeah, it’s hell, it can be very difficult. But, or when you’re working on keeping it moving, initially it’s not refined yet. So, and even even once it is refined, there’s still moments of extraordinary sacrificing discipline to keep it running right And keep it, maintaining and improving it. So I think that one in some ways it gets easier, not because the work becomes easier, but because the capacity to do the work increases. And one of these, like huge takeaways from the weekend, is like, Oh, my goodness, what are we pursuing in this journey? Well, we’re not really pursuing any change in our circumstances, substantial, right. It’s not like we’re actually going to get to another state and then we’re happy and that’s where we build our home. So what is it? Every day we’re going to wake up and do work and be in community with people and engage with conflict and solve it amably and create value. Then what is it we’re truly pursuing by training hard, by engaging these types of conversations, by doing these things? And one of the things the conclusion I drew by working conclusion, i should say, is I think we’re working just to create a higher capacity. It’s a lot easier for a large truck to tow a trailer filled with rock than it is a small sedan. And if we can create in ourselves the capacity of a truck to haul a heavy load versus a small car, then when every day requires you to throw a book in it, that’s not a big deal. But then when the boulder does fall down and needs moved, it’s way better to be the truck right, and that’s kind of a silly analogy. But what we’re truly pursuing is not so much necessarily to change the circumstances always, but to change our ability and capacity with which we respond to the circumstances that we’re in, and it becomes in many ways, therefore, a capacity issue. And then the other thing that comes to mind, kind of as we’re, as we’re closing this thought experiment, is everything that I need, everything that you need, to engage with the challenges, struggles and desires of our hearts and lives. Right now we have, and it’s simply a matter of can we bring ourselves to grips with the fact that we have everything that we need to do, precisely that which we want to do, and it’s a matter of are we making the right decisions with those resources to accomplish it, at whatever slow or fast a pace we’re capable of doing? And that’s a really difficult thing to grapple with, but it is what it is, and the sooner that we can come to grips with it, the sooner that we can begin aligning our energy in an effective direction towards that end, and a lot of the work, i think, is there.

Brandon Seifert: 34:55

I agree, cool. Well, i want to thank you real fast, just because that helps me work out a lot of different things that I’ve been really kind of molding over this past week. So thank you.

Jon Mayo: 35:08

Yeah, man, my pleasure, and I know that typically we were talking about having one to three topics, kind of maybe something funny, maybe some big serious, depending on what the week looks like when we do this. Did you have any more topics for today, or was it one and done?

Brandon Seifert: 35:25

One and done today.

Jon Mayo: 35:27

Awesome. Well, thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Thought Expeditions from the Be Relentless podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please help us to grow it by sharing it with someone who you think may be able to pull value from it. Additionally, we’re a huge fan of reviews, especially those five star ones, so if you could go ahead and leave that wherever you listen to your podcast, that is also greatly appreciated. Finally, if you want to learn more about the work that we’re doing outside of the show as part of the ULA universe and CCU stamina, or supplementation to be relentless book itself, go ahead and walk on over to the ULA universecom and subscribe so that you can stay up to date. Thanks again. Have a great day.

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