Episode 27 from The Grit Theory.

Today we stake claim to new territory and engage the problems that are surrounding all of us head on. This conversation is raw, real, and just the beginning.

Highlights include:
-Our neighbors are not our enemies.
-United we stand, tired of division.
-The buck stops here.
-Pursuing greatness.
-Waging war on division, victimhood, lies and despair.
-Inspiring hope, grit and courage.
-Encouraging others to take ownership of themselves and press in.
-Grit Theory as a source for unity, strength, freedom and truth.

Did you find value in today’s conversation? SHARE IT! 

Also, check out Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be waymakers HERE.

Do you want to learn more? Check out:

The Book: Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be WayMakers.

The Podcast: “Be Relentless Podcast”

The Fuel: Sisu Stamina, Performance Evolved

Linktree: Here.

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Episode Transcript

00;00;00;08 – 00;00;19;29

Aaron

Well, good morning. Grit Theory. I hope you’re ready for this one night. I’m kind of afraid to record right now, John, because when you get all amped up and you just let it let let it fly. I mean, with wisdom, you know, we’re trying to we know just like, say, whatever. But when you’re fired up, things start coming out.

00;00;19;29 – 00;00;38;24

Aaron

And I think this episode’s going to be a little bit a little grittier than than the typical fare that we have. John, you and I had a discussion the other day has been culminating, you know, with texts and videos and and pieces like, oh, what about this? What about this? And we just have to share it. So I’m going to pitch it over to you.

00;00;39;08 – 00;00;40;18

Aaron

What are we talking about today?

00;00;41;10 – 00;01;06;09

Jon

Goodness, I wish we knew. Well, I so wish we knew. You know, before we jump in, if you don’t mind, one. One thing that I think we owe to ourselves and are those who’ve been faithful in listening with us over the last couple of months is the show’s not free. Right. You and I work hard and we sacrifice a lot of time into it, but we’re doing it free of cost and we only support like give shout outs to those we love.

00;01;06;10 – 00;01;14;25

Jon

So if you get any encouragement from our conversations, if you get any motivation from anyone, please pay it forward. Yeah, sure. Pay it forward. I agree. So I.

00;01;14;25 – 00;01;33;24

Aaron

Agree. And I think any time you get something good, you really just being selfish for keeping it to yourself anyway. So that really helps us out. But, but also it helps. And the really the mission of what we’re doing is that we’re trying to allow other people to be included in this conversation. So not just hear it, but also they can grow from it.

00;01;33;24 – 00;02;06;13

Aaron

So share it for it. Someone will thank you for sharing it so. But okay, so let me just frame it this way. So we have what I think what we’re really talking about today is less topical and more of attacking sort of a symptom that we’ve we’ve seen and this sort of unrest. You know, when you have unrest in your heart is because it’s pointing to something you need to pay attention to and you can ignore it if you want.

00;02;06;26 – 00;02;23;09

Aaron

But it’s going to it’s going to manifest itself. It’s going to it’s going to be heard. And, you know, we could we find all kinds of distractions to try to keep that unrest at bay. But at some point, you get to stop, turn around and look at your pursuer and say, okay, what do you want? What do you want?

00;02;23;09 – 00;02;40;09

Aaron

What’s what’s what do I need to be paying my. My mind’s eye is attention, too, right now. Mm hmm. And it’s good. It’s like an agitation. It’s a it’s a discomfort that allows you to start looking at the thing. And so you’ve been in kind of a week of unrest.

00;02;41;16 – 00;02;59;10

Jon

Mean, I’ve been in a lifetime of unrest that serious of that. But it’s been coming to a head. Yeah. More and more. And, you know, earlier this week, I figured something out on the inside of Graham where I just was, like.

00;02;59;26 – 00;03;00;14

Aaron

So hip.

00;03;00;19 – 00;03;01;06

Jon

And things.

00;03;01;11 – 00;03;01;20

Aaron

Like that.

00;03;02;15 – 00;03;05;05

Jon

That’s what it’s called, right? It’s.

00;03;05;05 – 00;03;07;23

Aaron

I don’t fact check. All right.

00;03;08;10 – 00;03;20;20

Jon

I’m going to stop tiptoeing. I’m just going to jump in and see where this goes. It’s an exploration, right? I got I wish it was prescriptive because would be easy to read, but I don’t really know where we’re going to go. But but there’s some things I’m not going to be quiet on anymore. And that’s the bottom line.

00;03;20;20 – 00;03;35;01

Jon

And we talked before because I was like, Hey, buddy, I want to make sure that you know where I want to go on this. And you’re not blindsided and you’re like, Let’s frickin go. So here we are. Right. The bottom line is and I think the real heart of it, the core of it, is our neighbor is not our enemy.

00;03;35;16 – 00;04;13;23

Jon

Hmm. Bottom line. And right now, we live in a time where everywhere you look, we’re being told that we should hate our neighbor, right? That our fellow countrymen is the problem, right? Whether it’s the Antifa garbage, whether it’s the left verse, right versus race versus, you know, whatever your sexual preferences, all the, you know, vaccinated, unvaccinated. All of these things are being used to sow dissension and division and hate amongst our communities.

00;04;14;03 – 00;04;38;24

Jon

Right. And it’s even tearing homes apart. And it’s a lie. You know, a lot of these things can be important, but it’s not the core things that we need to focus on. And that, you know, the bottom line is our neighbors, our friend. Right. United we can stand. Our country has been based off of unity since its creation.

00;04;39;06 – 00;05;08;25

Jon

And that is where the Constitution and the Bill of Rights comes in. Right. They’ve not been perfectly played out, but the gift of them and the foundation of the land that we live in is the ability to pursue the fulfillment of what that foundation is allowing us. Yeah. Right. And it’s a privilege to be able to sit and have a conversation like this and to fight and to risk offending some people, to speak the truth in the pursuit of good.

00;05;08;27 – 00;05;33;28

Jon

Agreed. And, you know, so I’m just I’m so tired of the division that I desperately desire to live my life in such a way that it is that I am a force for unity, for truth, for freedom and for strength. Yes, I.

00;05;34;05 – 00;05;51;29

Aaron

Agree. That’s and we talked I think a lot of what we’ve been talking about is the the narratives right now have really been focusing on the negative is like what we don’t want or what we hate or what we what we what we think is an enemy of society. But people aren’t really talking about what is good. Like, what are we pursuing?

00;05;52;02 – 00;05;52;12

Jon

Yeah.

00;05;53;00 – 00;06;08;25

Aaron

That I think, is the conversation that really needs to happen in these, these endless debates. And I listen to them because because I really honestly, I really want to understand like if if I seem to be leaning on one side of the issue, then I’ll listen to the other side because I just feel like people believe what they think.

00;06;10;17 – 00;06;36;04

Aaron

I’d like to think that people honestly believe that if they’re going to be so emphatic about it, okay? And even if it’s a lie, they, you know, they believe in that way completely. But I. I don’t hear. Okay, I get it. You’re mad about this. And when people are mad about something, don’t you kind of tune out like I, I, I heard a joke once that a bumper stickers are the worst way to make friends.

00;06;36;15 – 00;06;57;16

Aaron

You know, Like, do you ever read a bumper sticker and go, Wow, that’s someone I’d like to hang out with? Like, that doesn’t never, ever happens. Because really, they tend to be like, Here’s my opinion and it’s greater than yours. And it’s typically negative. Like, the stuff that I want to hear is, Hey, I’m fighting for a strong family.

00;06;57;28 – 00;07;23;27

Aaron

I’m I’m fighting for a country that’s unified again, that that pursues the same ideals, that wants high moral good, that demands more of itself. It wants to grow and its mind and its heart and its and its creativity to serve man like a pursuit, a daily pursuit that’s about others, not self. These things, I think, can temper all the negative things that we’re saying.

00;07;24;09 – 00;07;35;08

Aaron

Because when we start getting into the weeds about preference, then we’re really what we’re talking about is my personal ideals are more important than that. Those are the whole. And that’s what really concerns me right now in our nation.

00;07;35;11 – 00;08;01;03

Jon

Yeah, what I think is born from is as human beings, we need an ideal to pursue. Period. Yeah, right. And if you look at the history of like our country as an example, it started with us fighting for independence, then fighting to coast to coast. Right. And then we have the world wars. And in like if you look at all the things, it’s like, oh, we were so united because we as a nation were fighting an enemy, right?

00;08;01;03 – 00;08;24;11

Jon

Whether it was the frontier or, you know, World War Two or what have you. And that has served as our ideal for us nationally right now, where I think the mistake is, and I’ve fallen to this, is we’re so starving for an ideal to pursue that we’re willing to allow silly things to become our ideal that we’re willing to fight over, Right.

00;08;24;17 – 00;08;44;12

Jon

Opposed to something that’s valuable enough to actually spend our energy on. Right. Like great examples. If you’re if you are a Ford or Chevy person or Coke or Pepsi person, you allow that to become part of identity. You’re reaching for something, right? More than that can give it to you. And that’s what we’re seeing with with all these little points of division.

00;08;44;18 – 00;09;16;28

Jon

You know, they’re distractions that are keeping us from being able to actually focus on what is good. Yep. Right. And I’ve thought a lot about why in the heck am I going to war with myself every single day? Why? Why can’t I just work my day job, enjoy my family, enjoy the animals in rest? You know? No, it’s because I feel like I’ve been preparing and trying to get ready for a situation that I didn’t know would ever present itself.

00;09;16;28 – 00;09;40;10

Jon

But that’s what it was. It’s like because all these people, you know, like if you’re a professional athlete, you’re preparing for your sport. If you own a business, you’re running your business, right? And I’ve been throwing myself in the forge, as we call it, upping the temperature, trying to get rid of the crappy parts of myself, trying to strengthen, you know, that which is of good character and integrity within myself, become more mentally tough, physically capable for what you know.

00;09;40;15 – 00;10;03;00

Jon

And all I’ve been able to say is for preparation for an opportunity that I can’t see yet and to potentially be a better example for my sons. And, you know, frankly, I’ve lived a life in the shadows feigning baldness in compartmentalized ways and, you know, like starting young.

00;10;03;17 – 00;10;06;11

Aaron

So being bold, like choosing what your.

00;10;06;11 – 00;10;26;13

Jon

Boldon Choosing what? I’m bold and selective, right? Yeah. Like trying to be very socially aware, emotionally intelligent. I mean, my parents got divorced when I was young. I moved between houses three times a week every week. Right. So I became there’s a a john with dad at Dad’s house, right? There’s a john at the mom’s house, at the school, at church.

00;10;26;13 – 00;10;47;25

Jon

And as life went on. Right. And there’s army. John then there is home. John There’s single. John There’s all these frickin different versions of myself, and I’m the same person. I’m not having split personalities, but I knew I it always felt like I’m looking through different masks and over time I’m realizing I’m burning the masks, I’m getting rid of things because I learned that helped me to survive and get what I want.

00;10;48;00 – 00;11;18;18

Jon

Yeah, but it was killing me. And that’s kind of where these things have come to a head because I finally came to the point of like, what is the ideal? I’m truly pursuing? Why do I why do I care so desperately that on my deathbed I can be the most evolved, high performing version of myself? And I realized I have to become the best version, the greatest version of myself, because it is the least I can do for the free gift I’ve been given of salvation through my King creed.

00;11;19;02 – 00;11;37;24

Jon

And that’s the bottom line. And if I don’t pursue that, it is from a heart of gratitude. I can’t pay back the gift I’ve been giving, you know? But if I don’t pursue that, I’m falling short of the potential of daily dying to myself so that I can live in my. KING.

00;11;37;24 – 00;12;00;25

Aaron

Yes, That’s so that that’s, I think, a rare a rare pursuit right now. And we should temper this by saying this is extremely difficult. This isn’t something like we’re saying like, oh, yeah, you just die of yourself. Like, this is this is like you looking at something that doesn’t want to leave. And it’s and it’s kicking and screaming and you’re in a hell trying to let it go.

00;12;00;25 – 00;12;27;20

Aaron

And most people just go, You know what? I don’t want to be in hell. I’m just going to keep this demon in my life. And and this is why I think when people start talking about another way and an alternative to it, there’s there’s so much combativeness. Like, our society is not used to self beating themselves up. Like I think if we would just start looking in the mirror and going, you, you are not showing up.

00;12;27;20 – 00;12;46;20

Aaron

You’re not doing what you need to do. Like I’m a little pissed off of you right now to, you know, not other people. I mean, imagine that if we just look at ourselves, we get more angry at ourselves than we do at others. Yeah. And we start really pushing that. Then maybe when someone says something to me, it’s actually familiar and it’s it’s actually a friend like, Yeah, you know what?

00;12;46;20 – 00;13;00;11

Aaron

I’ve been saying the same thing to myself or I’ve said something different and I didn’t see that side of it. But I appreciate when I look at something that needs to die. Mm hmm. And and that’s, I think, what we’re missing right now.

00;13;01;03 – 00;13;20;07

Jon

And that’s a problem. When you don’t have an ideal, right? You can be selfish, indignant, you know, when you’re pursuing something greater than yourself. That’s what I mean by ideal. And when I say king, you know, like earlier, I’m a Christian, So. So my king is Jesus, right? And I just wanna be clear. Yep. Um, and me saying that, by the way, terrifies me.

00;13;21;08 – 00;13;45;15

Jon

It terrifies me to say that I had to make the decision before record this episode that if I was going to step in to the fullness of what I think we need to do with this show and to be able to encourage others to fully look in the mirror and begin pursuing a better version of themselves and to begin to pursue something greater than themselves, frankly, wherever the heck they find that.

00;13;45;18 – 00;14;08;00

Jon

Yeah, but I had to be true and speak the truth of what is driving me. Yeah. And part of that decision was the realization that some people I dearly love. The reason it scares me is because I’m afraid I’m going to lose them, that I’m going to say this and they’re going to be like, Peace out. Yeah. And I realized if that’s the response, then I have to be okay with that, right?

00;14;08;00 – 00;14;26;26

Jon

Because I have to be true to who I am. And that’s part of the the sacrifice that comes back to the difficulty of when you pursue something bigger than yourself. What makes it uncomfortable is you have to sacrifice. You have to give up parts of who you want to be or what you’re comfortable being. You have to give up circumstances.

00;14;27;02 – 00;14;45;07

Jon

You have to give up relationships as you’re pursuing the better version of yourself. Like, let’s just look at let’s see you hang out with the party crowd. You like to drink and stuff, and I get it right. And but over time, like you’re overweight and you want to change that and you want to start to improve your circumstances, you’re getting a serious, shitty girlfriend, right?

00;14;46;03 – 00;14;50;12

Aaron

Yeah. You don’t want to have a fuzzy head all the time. You want to start getting sharp. You’re like.

00;14;50;13 – 00;15;08;29

Jon

Maybe I don’t want to, you know, I want to build my career, be able to maybe look, think about marrying this girl, whatever. Right. Over time, as you evolve, you’re hitting the gym, you’re starting to apply discipline in your life, You’re starting to improve your career. You may find that it’s harder to go and party overnight with your friends.

00;15;08;29 – 00;15;25;07

Jon

In fact, you will find it’s harder to do that. And you’re going to that’s going to become a point attention. At some point you’re giving up a lifestyle and unfortunately, you’re often giving up the people who are going to continue in that lifestyle to push forward into the next version of yourself, which is better for you and those around you.

00;15;25;15 – 00;15;25;27

Jon

You know.

00;15;27;14 – 00;15;54;11

Aaron

When you use even saying like you’re pursuing ideas, like you say, I’m I’m a Christian already, people are saying, Oh, I’m comfortable with that. And they’re tuning it out. But what I would challenge people to say, if you say anything like that, I’m or whatever, then then I would push back with, well, what is your ideal then? Because what I’m kind of what I’m kind of tired is if people being vague they Yeah.

00;15;54;11 – 00;16;08;13

Aaron

They’ll they’re so quick on I’m like attacking. Oh I don’t like this and this and this and they’re like, okay, well what do you stand for? Well, hold on. That’s a little personal. Like, you know what? If you say stuff like that, then don’t even say anything about what you’re against. You’ve got to know what you’re for.

00;16;08;24 – 00;16;09;07

Jon

Mm hmm.

00;16;09;11 – 00;16;12;08

Aaron

For If I know what you’re for, then we can have a conversation.

00;16;12;12 – 00;16;52;09

Jon

What’s wonderful, you said this when we’re talking earlier this week is you can’t speak against something if you don’t define what you’re for, right? You have to stand for something to speak against something. That’s a critical missing function in a lot of what we’re seeing in the division and lies that are going around us. And, you know, we the grit theory is here to be an inspiration and encouragement of bettering yourself in the pursuit of an ideal, to face the hard things, to take ownership of your life and to muster up the ugly, hard grit that it takes to do those things right.

00;16;52;09 – 00;17;15;25

Jon

Because it’s not easy. But man, the reward is so fun, you know, when it’s so worth it to look back on a year of improving yourself versus a year of waste. Yes. And that’s why we’re here. And we’ve evolved in that. Right. We’ve talked. And this will not become I don’t see you and I ever making this a political platform, a pulpit to preach from or any of that.

00;17;16;03 – 00;17;34;02

Jon

This is just our ability to pursue better versions of ourselves and share that encouragement in the fight. Right. Because it’s a journey. And I think that’s what makes this attractive. But like, it has to be based on why the heck are we doing this? Yeah, because we believe it’s what we’re called to do it. We believe that it’s the least we can do for the gift we’ve been given.

00;17;34;06 – 00;17;52;22

Jon

Yep. Goodness sake. And the other thing that’s terrifying to me, man, is one say, like saying the things you said today. Whoa. But you know what? It feels good. It feels good because I don’t feel like I’m hiding no, anymore. It’s like, Hey, here I am. And then if. If it offends you. I’m sorry. That’s a you problem.

00;17;52;22 – 00;18;03;16

Jon

That’s not a me problem. Because I’ve not done anything offensive. Yeah, I’ve exercised my right in this nation to be me and to pursue something better than myself at the benefit to love those around me.

00;18;03;21 – 00;18;24;09

Aaron

Offensive. The subject is subject to to the person anyway. So it’s like you can’t even define it anymore. It’s like, Oh, that’s offensive. Like, you know what? I’m not going to chase that. You know, It’s like it’s chasing the wind to me. And if we offend people and you offend people now, are we trying to offend people? No, but we are trying to say what is true and that does offend people.

00;18;24;21 – 00;18;48;06

Aaron

And I, I remember that there’s a famous clip out there with Jordan Peterson. She’s he’s interviewing this lady from BBC. And she said, why is it that you can say, why is your opinion more important than my being offended by that opinion or my comfort I make? Yeah, it says something like this. And he’s and he said, brilliant.

00;18;48;06 – 00;19;08;29

Aaron

I thought sometimes you sometimes you have to risk offense in saying what is true, which and then he turns around, he goes, What you just said to me, that was actually pretty uncomfortable. And, and I didn’t really like that. What gives you the right to say that? You know what? She was silent and this is kind of the back and forth, right?

00;19;08;29 – 00;19;29;09

Jon

Well, the truth of it is it’s uncomfortable for both sides. Yes, I’m uncomfortable right now. Yes. But I am so grateful because this is a step that I’ve needed to take for a long time. You know, a house divided cannot stand. How much more can a person divided? Right. Right. And that’s some of the symbolism today. It’s like, you know what?

00;19;29;21 – 00;19;54;24

Jon

When I look around there, scary things happening in the world right now, the scary things happening politically there, scary things happening geopolitically, nationally, every on every level. It’s like, oh, dear. Right. And I realized I’ve been really struggling with what can I do to help be a force for good, period, because I don’t want my sons to inherit a mess of problems for me, right?

00;19;54;24 – 00;20;17;07

Jon

Or from my generation or from our generations of those who are walking the earth as adults right now. You know, I don’t want that to happen. The buck’s going to stop here with me, right? If they have to engage in trying to make things better because we’ve screwed it up. I made the decision this week definitively, that they will be joining me in the fight or I will be dead.

00;20;17;13 – 00;20;30;27

Jon

It will not be. They will pick up the tools to fix things that I’ve neglected, agree with, out of out of fear of offending someone or out of fear of discomfort. Out of fear of cost to myself. No. The buck stops with me.

00;20;30;27 – 00;20;51;08

Aaron

I love it. I love it. If if this were it, like if we were thinking, I’m think of like these old Civil War movies and there’s waves of soldiers that are going in right in uniform, carrying their banner, their flag, their banner and so on. And I love that that that picture of of carrying the flag, because that flag represents this is what we’re fighting for.

00;20;51;11 – 00;21;12;11

Aaron

This is the ideal. We’re not fighting because we like to kill people. We’re not fighting because we like war. It’s an awful, awful thing. But this ideals and more important than my life even and if we if we lay that down or we let other people lay it down and we look back to the row behind us say, you know what?

00;21;12;22 – 00;21;30;06

Aaron

This is you And I feel like as a father, that’s kind of what we’re doing to our kids, even if if we don’t first get run into the battle and see how much territory we could take. And then at the end of our life, on her deathbed, Son, I got you this far. It’s your turn now, and I think you’re going to go further than me.

00;21;30;25 – 00;21;32;12

Aaron

But let’s give them a fighting chance.

00;21;32;16 – 00;21;52;28

Jon

Well, that’s the goal, right? And there’s three things I’m going to try and Rapid fire. One, you mentioned Jim Pierson earlier. He’s been asked, do you believe in God? Because a lot of the things he says leads you to think maybe this guy does. And his response strikes me, and I’ve taken it very seriously. He’s saying I’m I am too scared of the implications of what it would mean to say I believe in God, to say I believe in God.

00;21;53;16 – 00;22;20;01

Jon

And, you know, hopefully his courage grows daily. But I know I’ve taken that seriously and the reason I’ve not been ready to own who I’m becoming and who I am because I’ve been to hypocritical, too torn asunder, to not true to what I am to to pursuing this ideal, to be able to say that and look with boldness in someone’s eyes and say, That’s my pursuit.

00;22;20;01 – 00;22;46;23

Jon

And here’s the thing. It’s a pursuit. I am still an incredibly broken and consistent supporter, human being, you know? So it’s like, I’ve not arrived, man. And like two day probably I’m going to screw something up and just make a fool of myself. But that’s part of the journey. And you know what? Like when I screw up, I’m going to get back up and pursue the same goals I’m pursuing, especially with more boldness.

00;22;46;23 – 00;22;48;27

Jon

Now because I’m one dude, You know.

00;22;48;28 – 00;23;06;05

Aaron

You’re not you’re not a child anymore. A child doesn’t ride a bike for fear of falling off the bike. Correct. And you know, that’s just part of the process as a as an adult. Yep. Like you need to push past that. What if it hurts? You’re going to learn, you’re going to get stronger, and eventually you’re going to see that you can accomplish things.

00;23;06;08 – 00;23;21;02

Jon

I’ve also become my own worst boss, so I’m not really scared. Yeah, that I got quoted on that. But I’m not really scared of what other people’s critiques are going to be of me because there’s nothing someone can do to me that is worse than what I did to my sense. Good. Trust me, there’s things I do not share that’s very dear to myself.

00;23;21;15 – 00;23;28;28

Aaron

If you want to start you, you want to start your own business. Get ready to work for the worst boss you’ve ever the hardest boss you ever have. Or you’re going to go broke.

00;23;29;10 – 00;23;45;07

Jon

Yeah, but the conversations I have with myself in the run that I do not record or like, but I’m worried that some there’s some poor family that I run by their house in the country here and they, they just hear me yelling and cursing at myself and ripping my hair out and stuff. He’s like a psycho, you know?

00;23;45;07 – 00;24;09;13

Jon

But no, I’m negotiating the brass tacks and I want to be very clear in a statement I made earlier, I said I had to be willing to let go of certain friends should I lose them. That’s the worst case scenario. I, I love the people. I’m afraid to lose deeply. And that’s never going to change. So any loss that happens will not be because of me.

00;24;09;24 – 00;24;29;15

Aaron

Well, you also have to know that you’re doing it. They have to know that you’re doing it to yourself. Like I’m I have something I’ve become friendly in my in my own life. Yeah, that can die, too. Or at least be pushed to the side if it’s in the way of my mission. So it’s just it’s just part of the thinking process in order to accomplish what you got to it.

00;24;29;19 – 00;24;34;03

Jon

It is. Yeah. And yeah, I just wanted to be clear on that because.

00;24;34;04 – 00;24;36;26

Aaron

Noble pursuits, this isn’t selfish things, you know?

00;24;36;27 – 00;24;57;10

Jon

Well, for me, it’s my faith. Yeah, right. Like I’m genuinely afraid by saying today, like, hey, I’m a Christian, that I have friends that are very dear to me that I’ll lose. And I realize, like, when talk about hypocritical, that’s a problem. And I had to come to the place where it’s like, Are you going to pursue this thing bigger than yourself enough that you’re willing to lose anything for it?

00;24;57;13 – 00;25;17;03

Jon

Yeah. And and I’m for the first time in my life saying, yeah, I am. Whatever it takes. Here I am. Say me, I’m going to do this. And do I want to lose people? Heck no. Do I want to continue to walk with them as my brothers? Right. Abso freaking lutely. Yes. Yeah, that’s right. The ball’s in their court on that, right?

00;25;17;03 – 00;25;23;28

Jon

Because this is who I am. And if you if you’re cool with that party on, let’s push it. Let’s keep going together. Let’s keep living life together.

00;25;23;28 – 00;25;43;17

Aaron

That is such a great way to tackle your mission. Like we use the gym analogy often, but what if every coach and they and I think they do on some level, like a someone comes in no matter where they’re at, Maybe they’ve never even stepped in pursuit of something in their entire life. Really. That was hard. And there’s just two questions.

00;25;44;07 – 00;25;50;29

Aaron

So I want I want to know what your ideal is, What are you fighting for, and then what are you willing to give up to get to it? Mm hmm. That’s simple.

00;25;52;06 – 00;26;06;09

Jon

Well, man, I’m. I’m throwing the glove today. That’s an old metaphor for, like, establishing a duel. I’m starting a war in the war that I’m waging with my life is against division. Victimhood lies in despair.

00;26;06;13 – 00;26;06;27

Aaron

Yes.

00;26;07;05 – 00;26;30;15

Jon

I’m not deaf. That shadow’s not going to come to this house. And. And I want to encourage others to pick up in that fight. Hey, if it’s a lie, if it’s divisive, if it inspires a victimhood mentality that robs you of your personal ownership in free agency and freedom. No, we have to say that those things are not good, period.

00;26;30;17 – 00;26;53;01

Aaron

We have to be friends that are are comfortable with or not. I shouldn’t say comfortable, but are ready to say those things. Yeah, because if you say to me, everyone hates me and nobody likes me, it’s like, that’s a lie. It’s a lie. Stop, stop, stop. Yep. You know, and that’s that’s a good friends do when when despair is is a temporary thing.

00;26;53;01 – 00;27;13;07

Aaron

It won’t last forever. If you think it’s going to last forever, then get a friend that will remind you. Otherwise. You know, we this we are. We are too quick to think that things are permanent that aren’t and things that and and we’re also too quick to to not believe that things can be permanent. They can become part of your.

00;27;13;07 – 00;27;36;04

Jon

Life that seem fleeting. It is it it goes straight back to the mistaking what’s non-essential for essential. Right. Right. Like CNN just came out the examples hilarious to me like I can’t I don’t comprehend it. And they’re like, there’s a debate apparently right now between like breast feeding and breastfeeding. And and I don’t even know the genesis behind it.

00;27;36;04 – 00;27;49;25

Jon

Like, I don’t understand the base of it or anything. What the first thought that came to my mind when I heard that that’s a thing is how is it even possible for us to care about that with what’s going on around us?

00;27;49;25 – 00;27;50;28

Aaron

I’m agreed.

00;27;50;29 – 00;28;08;14

Jon

And I was on a run the other day thinking because unfortunately that’s what I do. It puts me in uncomfortable situations, but I was thinking and I was listening to this podcast and they’re calling out like, Hey, we need people to speak up, all right? Because I’ve been challenged. I’ve been really fighting with this idea of like, what can I do?

00;28;08;16 – 00;28;31;20

Jon

Right? I don’t want to speak politics Like, I don’t want to give an opinion, podcast, writing or conversation or lifestyle. I don’t want to be a I’m not a preacher, I’m not a religious person at all, which is an interesting statement based on everything I said. But but it’s true in line with my faith, right? Like I don’t like trappings of Laura organizations that that can lead to corruption.

00;28;31;22 – 00;28;59;09

Jon

Right. And one of the reasons you know I’ve been so scared to come out with these things is because I’ve been to two broken teeth and claimed that I’m in the pursuit of something bigger. Right. But I kind of got stirred up a little bit because part of the conversation on this podcast, there’s some burning. It’s like, hey, we we need like everyone needs to speak up, you know, in whatever avenue they can.

00;28;59;09 – 00;29;20;26

Jon

And I’m sitting there running, you know, I’m like, Oh yeah, I need to get into a position. I can speak up right, and speak up. And then it kind of hit me like a freight train. I was like, You, you idiot. You have a podcast, you’re building a business, you’re doing stupid things on social media. Why the heck aren’t you just saying the truth?

00;29;20;26 – 00;29;37;24

Jon

They’re in in potentially encouraging some of those who are listening anyways. And by the way, also putting yourself to that standard of conviction so that you do not have an out. That’s something, right? I was like, All right, and here we go. And I called you, you poor guy. You get caught him. Hey, mother, baby.

00;29;37;24 – 00;29;43;04

Aaron

It’s a phone. You call me back. Oh, Jon’s fired up again. Let’s see what’s going on. Yeah.

00;29;43;05 – 00;29;45;14

Jon

What goes through your mind when you get all like that, by the way?

00;29;46;01 – 00;30;07;25

Aaron

I think, you know, it’s when you have when you have a friend that you know well enough, you just know where that’s coming from. You know, it’s like if you if, if you’re amped up about something or in a, in like a passionate, positive way or something negative is going on, you just kind of read it. You just kind of go, Oh yeah, this is like you temper that.

00;30;07;25 – 00;30;29;12

Aaron

It’s not like offensive to me because I know who you are. And so I was like, All right, let’s I think he needs I think he needs someone to talk to. Otherwise this is going to be this is going to fester a bit. So but, you know, the water is good as long as it keeps pouring. When it stays in the same place, it’s it tends to become septic, you know.

00;30;29;12 – 00;30;30;25

Aaron

So we got to yeah, it’s like.

00;30;30;25 – 00;30;34;24

Jon

Fire in a fireplace is good when it starts burning the whole house up. It’s a problem.

00;30;34;24 – 00;30;39;02

Aaron

Yes, exactly. And let’s put, let’s put direction to this. Right. Yeah.

00;30;39;03 – 00;30;54;13

Jon

That’s all right. Thanks for answering that question. I’ve wondered because if you don’t know. Yeah, you don’t know. But I can come back. I want you to have a great day. I hope you’re encouraged to have peace, and a 5 minutes later, you may get another call for me about.

00;30;54;18 – 00;30;57;20

Aaron

Hey, Mother.

00;30;57;20 – 00;31;23;26

Jon

What just happened? All right, Welcome to the inside. But. But it’s wildness, man. And, you know, if we’re waging war against division, right? Yeah. Then why? What do we want to accomplish? We want to inspire hope, right? We want to inspire grit, right? And by grit, we really mean character and integrity enough to do hard things. Yes. Like have conversations like this.

00;31;23;26 – 00;31;46;22

Jon

Yes. You know, to be able to look at something and say it’s not good is a very uncomfortable thing and it takes strength to do it. If you’re taking if you take the seriousness of that action into account. Mm hmm. Right. It’s easy to sit back and just be judgmental and mouth off as a theorist. Mm hmm. Right.

00;31;46;26 – 00;32;07;13

Jon

Mm hmm. Oh, I’m comfortable in my couch hiding behind the screen. Right. But. But to. To actually put things into action, to become a practitioner. Right. Good old Goggins loves that. That difference. The theorist versus the practitioner. And he likes making fun of theorists. Well, it’s for a reason, man. Like, if you write seven books, but don’t do anything like he thought about a lot, but you don’t know.

00;32;08;00 – 00;32;35;05

Jon

You know a lot about it, but you don’t know anything about it because the second you start experiencing something, it changes the entire thing. You you see that a lot. In a great example, this last week sent my wife to take care of her grandfather, who was very, very ill in the hospital fighting for his life. Right. And she’s there and she’s doing like 24, 48 hour shifts with her father.

00;32;35;12 – 00;33;03;04

Jon

Right. His son with her uncle, with her step mom. They’re doing these shifts. And what they found is because they’re doing shifts and going through the night with him, he’s recovering. He he’s not stressing out and flat lining at night and stuff. And he’s slowly getting healthier. And. But but what’s so interesting is the clarity of the person in the room versus the encouragement they’re getting, the encouragement they’re getting even from the people who are in the room the next day or the day before.

00;33;03;17 – 00;33;26;28

Jon

There’s it’s disjointed. Right. Like the person in the room sees the suffering and is working to mediate the suffering and help do the things that are required to make the person healthier. The person out of the room without seeing the suffering immediately forgets the suffering in line for what the ideal best case would be to fix something. And they’re like, No, continue doing that because it gives them a better chance of survival.

00;33;26;28 – 00;33;50;10

Jon

And so, yeah, but he’s exhausted in suffering and needs rest for some time. Yes. And we have to remind ourselves like, hey, we’re not always going to be on the frontlines of it difficulty. But when we’re walking along with someone who is trust, their insight for being on the ground and try to give encouragement while strength while speaking to the fact that like, hey, you see the problems firsthand.

00;33;50;23 – 00;33;58;27

Jon

I’m from a distance, so I trust your discernment because you see the whole picture. I just want to provide some further clarity and encouragement to you.

00;33;59;01 – 00;34;35;07

Aaron

That’s what’s the difference between having a dynamic or a dynamic response to pain versus a static one? Yeah, you know, that’s poor leadership. I mean, anyone can do that leadership thing like do this, that, that, that, that, that a dynamic leader looks at it and assesses who’s in it with, with the person and goes this is this is okay this is nuanced like yes they need this but this is how we’re going to handle it or and that takes empathy, that takes time and that’s that’s what a true friend does.

00;34;35;18 – 00;34;36;03

Aaron

They’re in it.

00;34;36;15 – 00;34;55;07

Jon

Well in the Army. So I was an officer. And when you go into other leadership schools, they they remind you a lot and then you forget so quickly. I mean, that’s just human nature. You forget the things you learn, but don’t lose the boots on the ground perspective is the idea you’re going to have What, in any conflict, you’re gonna have a frontline right where people are fighting.

00;34;55;17 – 00;35;15;21

Jon

And if you remove from that front line, you’re not getting the whole picture. So if you lose the context, you’re going to over and you’re not taking into account appropriately the reports you’re getting from your leaders who are seeing the front line, you’re going to make decisions that are foolish, that sound so good in whatever comfortable little cell comparatively you’re in.

00;35;16;02 – 00;35;27;02

Jon

And that’s where it’s like looking at this stuff, right? Yes, I heard that call to hey, we like everyone needs to speak up, right? It’s no, it’s not time to be quiet anymore.

00;35;27;18 – 00;35;50;15

Aaron

And you’ve never and you never earned the right to step away from it and just tell other people what it’s like to go through it, you know? And I think there’s a great story I remember in Can’t Hurt Me. Goggins talks about the the guys who’ve gone through the BUDS training and they’re they, they come in they’re, they’re, they’re white class or whatever.

00;35;50;16 – 00;36;05;20

Aaron

You would recall them. They, they come in and they’re able to give them, punish them a little bit more and have a little more fun with them. And Goggins has a story. I remember this. He they go in, he goes into the water with them, like fully dressed. Yeah. With them and does the exercise with them. And I was like, what a great leadership.

00;36;05;20 – 00;36;12;08

Aaron

Like, he won the hearts of every single man. There. When he did that, it’s like, Well, I will, I will do this with you.

00;36;12;13 – 00;36;34;18

Jon

Yeah. And what I love about that story too, is he’s like, No one can make things harder on me than I’m going to make them All right. Which there’s power to that, right? We do have that ownership and you know that. But the kind of frontline thing I was thinking about here is like it’s so easy to be critical and make stupid decisions from the comfort of your couch, looking through social media, making stupid comments, Right?

00;36;34;18 – 00;36;55;18

Jon

Yeah. Right now I’m looking into a camera. I’m putting myself out there. Right? Right. This is the closest I came to getting in front of people. And I’m showing who I am. Right? That takes a different level of courage than trolling on the Internet. And I would say that this is the first step to saying, I want to understand the thing, the the things firsthand that are going on right now.

00;36;55;18 – 00;37;07;26

Jon

You have all these people who are fighting for unity and fighting for division. Yep. And I’m going to fight for unity all day. And instead of commenting and thinking about it and theorizing about it, like here we are.

00;37;08;06 – 00;37;15;23

Aaron

Division is easy, man. If you’re if you’re a divisive person, that’s the easy route. It’s easy to react, it’s easy to get angry.

00;37;15;23 – 00;37;17;28

Jon

It’s so self gratifying. It’s sickening.

00;37;18;00 – 00;37;44;11

Aaron

It’s an instantly so like. And also all it’s it’s just like a just think about the laziest thing your mind can do in that sort of division will go Yeah. Unity, though, is the highest level of strength and integrity and going into realizing, okay, I’m have to have really hard conversations and I don’t want to have, I’m going to have to teach myself things I’ve never learned.

00;37;44;21 – 00;37;55;26

Aaron

I’m going to have to grow in ways I didn’t think possible, which by the way, they are. If you’re fighting for ideas, it’s it’s amazing what you can accomplish. But I will tell you, it’s very difficult.

00;37;56;01 – 00;38;20;27

Jon

In to the difficulty thing right now. I’ve been starving to be able to walk boldly against an adversity right in hope and encouragement. Right. And be in be able to pursue that growth. And I’ve realized it’s a to struggle is proof that you’ve not been overran and defeated. Right. It’s like a drowning man is not dead until he’s breathing his final breath.

00;38;21;03 – 00;38;38;27

Jon

He’s sort of struggling still alive. There’s still fight there. And I realize I’ve been playing life so safe. I’m sitting here trying to up the temperature in the forge, make things harder myself, cut out things that are comfortable, get my body in better shape, make my mind tougher, you know, do all these things. I’m like, why? While the preparation thing.

00;38;39;09 – 00;39;02;23

Jon

But also I came to the realization this week and even right now talking like I’ve been preparing because I’ve been playing it safe. And frankly, with this conversation, I said, screw that. Like, pull off the thing. If adversity comes, then I’m just being trusted to face the adversity and I’m equipped to handle it. And if I’m not equipped, I’m going to grow in that moment and figure it out.

00;39;03;08 – 00;39;20;03

Jon

And step by step, we will build this house and we will we will secure the future we want our children to walk into. Yeah, we both have four kids. Yep. I’m not going to have my sons fight a fight that I should have fight. They’re going to have their own battle, right? They’re going to have their own things they have to do in life.

00;39;20;22 – 00;39;36;02

Jon

But they will never have to put their hand to something I should have. That’s right. Because. And that’s my declaration, Right. That’s what I owe to them. Right. I and that’s my promise to them. Right. I could get shocked on a on my run tomorrow or like drop a weight on my head and die in the morning or whatever.

00;39;36;10 – 00;40;03;26

Jon

And at least still here, this is my intent. This is my goal. This is what I’m striving do for them. And the other thing is I’m raising young men, right? I happen to have just four sons and I just I happen to have four sons. I’ve not been blessed with a daughter. So my goal in life is to raise these four young men to become, you know, warrior philosophers who love greatly and who act boldly for what is good, right?

00;40;03;26 – 00;40;29;14

Jon

What is right. Like, it’s so funny because in their innocence of youth, they have no restraint, you know, like, I’ll put my elbows on the table at dinner. Dad, family rule. Take your elbows off the table. It’s a chess game. Yep. Hey, it’s my role. I’m going to listen to your reproof on it. Right? It’s like, good. And someone like Trip, They started football last night, and someone kicked one of my sons, and they both were on that kid like crazy.

00;40;29;14 – 00;40;47;15

Jon

And I’m like, Hey, here’s the thing. If and it was an intentional thing, it was funny and it was a good teaching moment. But the thing is like if something’s wrong, they have the courage to act and immediately to correct it. If I, if I, if Lindsey and I are debating on something and we start to raise our voice, they’ll come in and yell at me not to yell at her.

00;40;47;25 – 00;40;49;24

Jon

Yeah. And I’m like, yes.

00;40;49;24 – 00;40;53;06

Aaron

That’s decentralized command is. Yeah. Jocko calls it.

00;40;53;23 – 00;40;54;20

Jon

It’s amazing. Yeah.

00;40;54;20 – 00;41;05;02

Aaron

Well it’s that’s what you want. I mean, ultimately you’re not raising kids. You’re raising adults in an adult’s not don’t need to go ask another adult to do the right thing If it’s the right thing, do it.

00;41;05;15 – 00;41;24;06

Jon

And that’s the that’s the courage I’m walking back into. I’m looking at them as an example of like, oh, man, I haven’t screwed it up enough. I’m seeing what I need to be in my kids, right? They have the the courage to see something wrong act right. And I have the I’ve had the courage to see something wrong and think about it.

00;41;25;18 – 00;41;27;18

Jon

I don’t recruit. All right. What a review this is.

00;41;27;18 – 00;41;49;02

Aaron

Me too. I’ll say, like, have a suspicion. Yeah, I should probably start whatever whatever task I need to do. And I’m like, I should go read a book about it. This is exactly. And that book is pretty good. I should read another book about it and another book about it, about something you know is right. It’s like.

00;41;49;02 – 00;41;49;11

Jon

You know.

00;41;49;18 – 00;41;51;19

Aaron

I am. I am I am striking in the nerves here.

00;41;51;28 – 00;41;57;02

Jon

It’s it’s the problem that I’m putting to death today. Right? This is the start of a journey, man.

00;41;57;03 – 00;41;57;17

Aaron

Right. Right.

00;41;57;23 – 00;42;13;23

Jon

Like this is the turning point. We just turned a new thing on, right? And in that is like, Hey, is it good to read? Heck yeah. Is it good to sharpen your mind taking these things? Absolutely lightly. But at the end of the day, you don’t need seven books to tell you something’s right. You know it immediately and you’re just stalling, right?

00;42;13;28 – 00;42;17;00

Jon

Very honorable, correct decision. Agreed. I’m speaking for myself.

00;42;17;02 – 00;42;38;27

Aaron

Yeah, I agree. Me too. I’m saying the same thing I read. I read books on on and how to be more disciplined like you could to start being to discipline things like you have to be a a Navy SEAL or. It’s funny, we go all the way to the end, like, let’s let’s see what Navy SEALs do when I can’t even get up at the right time or, you know, or go to bed at the right time.

00;42;38;27 – 00;42;39;06

Aaron

You know, it’s.

00;42;39;06 – 00;42;47;09

Jon

Like you want more discipline, start doing things that require discipline, like wake up at the same time every day and make your bed for show up at work. Show up at work.

00;42;47;11 – 00;42;48;03

Aaron

Love your wife.

00;42;48;03 – 00;42;50;02

Jon

Well, yeah, Well, now you’re getting complex.

00;42;50;04 – 00;42;54;24

Aaron

Oh, all right, that’s. I’m not going to read a book about it. I know it’s not for.

00;42;54;24 – 00;42;58;00

Jon

It’s like. But now that’s getting harder, right? Because it’s waking up more.

00;42;58;01 – 00;42;58;27

Aaron

Waiting, more weight.

00;42;58;27 – 00;43;06;04

Jon

More weight. Taking on the mantle of leadership to love. Even when you’re angry. That’s that’s harder, right? But if you don’t have discipline, good luck.

00;43;06;04 – 00;43;19;05

Aaron

So it is hard mean you don’t do it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I like this gritty episode, man. I like this Like it’s. Let’s be thinking about how a push into that harder like those those difficult thoughts are having.

00;43;19;06 – 00;43;40;23

Jon

You know, when I left the service when one of my leaders who whom I respected a lot, he was angry with me for leaving. And I ran into him one day and he’s like, John, just don’t waste. You have a you have a gift for leadership and for working with people. Don’t waste it when you get out, whatever and whatever.

00;43;41;01 – 00;43;41;15

Aaron

Good word.

00;43;41;24 – 00;44;03;05

Jon

He’s right. He said, Don’t waste it in whatever capacity. Figure out, how to continue leading. And I have ran from that mantle of leadership and I don’t know what it looks like and I don’t think it’s super special. But, you know, today and every day forward on embracing fully the weight of that mantle of leadership and whatever that’s going to mean.

00;44;03;18 – 00;44;14;25

Jon

And for now, that’s continue to work to better myself to be a good friend to you, the man that my wife and family needs. And day by day, we’ll fight for it.