Episode 26 from The Grit Theory.

Today we discuss the power of desire, hunger, and gratitude.

Highlights include:
– Hunger makes everything taste better.
– How bad do you want it?
– How do you see the world?
– The gift of gratitude.
– Need versus want.
– Joy and fulfillment during the journey.

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Also, check out Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be waymakers HERE.

Do you want to learn more? Check out:

The Book: Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be WayMakers.

The Podcast: “Be Relentless Podcast”

The Fuel: Sisu Stamina, Performance Evolved

Linktree: Here.

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Episode Transcript

00;00;00;11 – 00;00;02;05

Jon

I’ve really been trying to make you miserable this morning.

00;00;02;09 – 00;00;03;16

Aaron

Oh, yeah? Why is that?

00;00;03;22 – 00;00;10;09

Jon

I just feel like it. I think that sometimes the best friend it can be to you is the meanest friend that can be to you, you know?

00;00;10;18 – 00;00;21;02

Aaron

Well, and I was a little ticked off of you this morning. Yeah, cause I. I showed up to the ranch, and you did not open the gate for me. Correct? And I hate it when that remote is down.

00;00;21;03 – 00;00;28;00

Jon

I know we had to test the alternate opening system, which is you getting off your butt, getting out of your car.

00;00;28;16 – 00;00;29;27

Aaron

My heated leather seats.

00;00;30;20 – 00;00;42;01

Jon

Off your heated other sheets. You’re so boujee. You play the the clean, Dapper Dan side of the house. Well, and unfortunately, I think I fit the Neanderthal ish.

00;00;43;15 – 00;00;51;29

Aaron

But yeah, but yeah, I mean, I just want to encourage you in the future, when I lean on that horn, I mean it.

00;00;52;08 – 00;00;54;10

Jon

You know? Goodness.

00;00;55;11 – 00;01;00;10

Aaron

Is it wrong that I was secretly hoping you were going to be running on the midnight road again? In the dark road?

00;01;00;23 – 00;01;04;06

Jon

The only concern I’d have is that you’d be hoping that she can run me over.

00;01;05;07 – 00;01;06;18

Aaron

That’s exactly what I was saying. Yeah.

00;01;07;09 – 00;01;14;18

Jon

I do have green flashing lights on there now, so it’ll be harder for you to justify. I guess you just have to pick the lights up after you hit me hard.

00;01;14;27 – 00;01;16;03

Aaron

Hard to get away with it. Encore.

00;01;16;04 – 00;01;34;18

Jon

Probably just make the lights disappear. All right, guys, You heard it here. If I get hit by Aaron, it was not an accident. And I do wear those lights, so don’t let them lie to you. All right? Today we want to explore. Hunger is the best seasoning as a concept.

00;01;34;28 – 00;01;38;22

Aaron

Ooh, I like this topic. Hunger as a seasoning, huh?

00;01;38;26 – 00;02;03;11

Jon

Yeah. Hunger is the best seasoning. Okay. Yeah. As a topic. Right. And, like, just carte blanche. Like, what the heck are we going to do with that? Well, I think it’s talking about gratitude, right? I think it’s talking about desire. Like, if you. If you mix gratefulness when a desire is fulfilled. Right. With the strength of that desire, it makes whatever that thing is sweeter.

00;02;03;11 – 00;02;27;04

Jon

So looking at the simple analogy. Hunger is the best seasoning. You know, if you just had a large meal, whatever you’re eating in the next 5 minutes is probably not going to be a satisfying. Mm hmm. As if you’ve not eaten for three days. Whatever you’re given at that point is probably going to taste amazing, even if typically it may not.

00;02;28;19 – 00;02;35;19

Jon

And it kind of is a tongue in cheek way of saying like, oh, when you really need something, it’s going to be amazing regardless of your normal standards. Well, I.

00;02;35;19 – 00;02;56;11

Aaron

Think everyone’s experiences when they’ve been the like when you go through some kind of a trial and on the other side of it, everything does taste sweeter. I think a just a very basic example would be if you’ve ever gone on a one long hike and you stop and have a meal, it’s the best meal you’ve ever tasted in your life, you know.

00;02;57;05 – 00;03;02;13

Aaron

I don’t know why I can’t bacon taste better than house bacon. Other than.

00;03;02;27 – 00;03;03;24

Jon

You.

00;03;04;00 – 00;03;25;21

Aaron

There’s something about like, have you ever tent camp? And it’s like, you know, it’s cold. Or you get up in the morning and it’s kind of sitting there and then that coffee tastes great. And the the bacon that’s sizzling on the on the fire is great. And you’re kind of surrounded by kind of a uncomfortable situation. But it makes all the it makes all the reward that much sweeter.

00;03;25;22 – 00;03;48;20

Aaron

All the things that you are enjoying if you’ve ever done like do the Manitou Incline and get down. And I have talked to many people, they go and they go to the the burger place down there and that burger tastes frickin amazing. But why? It’s the same burger. It’s the same bacon. It’s the same coffee. In fact, in many times it’s worse than what you typically would have, but it somehow tastes better.

00;03;48;21 – 00;04;08;21

Jon

Y Yeah, and it’s funny because I got I got the quote from Little House on the Prairie, actually, because it’s one of the series we’re going through with the kids and these travelers go through and they’re just enamored with mass cooking and they’re going to have to batch it up, you know, live bachelor style for a bit to cook for themselves.

00;04;09;06 – 00;04;27;17

Jon

And he’s like, Will you please write these down? And she’s just, you know, they’re showering with compliments. And she’s like, well, hunger’s, the best, best seasoning, you know, just a really humble way of being like, you’re loving this because you’re starving. Yes, But like, the fun thread to pull on and it’s what you’re talking about in, like, the level of severity of circumstances you lived through.

00;04;27;19 – 00;04;45;28

Jon

Yeah. Really further and further illustrate it, right? Like, if you almost have thirst, that’s the best glass of water you’ve ever had in your life and never be able to duplicate it. It could be puddle water. Yeah. Right. But it saves you. And that mentality comes in in a lot of things. And I think it turns into something that we can actually use and create.

00;04;46;03 – 00;05;11;13

Jon

Mm hmm. But, you know, yesterday we were talking about friends, friendship, relationships that are positive in our lives. And I was thinking about it and I was like, you know what? I love having good friends to celebrate life with. Right. Like, I love cracking some beers, throwing some meat on the grill, whatever. Mm hmm. That’s fun. Mm hmm.

00;05;11;17 – 00;05;31;02

Jon

But you know what? That crowd is often times bigger to you. Yeah. Like. And I love it so much. It’s. It’s one of the joys of life. And I’m, you know, I’m grateful for it, but I am grateful with a desperation and exuberance. Mm hmm. That is unparalleled. When I’m going through hell. Yeah. And I have friends come alongside me.

00;05;31;10 – 00;05;40;29

Jon

Those, like, when that happens, it’s like, Okay, it’s nice to have friends around the barbecue. Right. It is life changing. Two friends going through hell.

00;05;41;14 – 00;06;07;02

Aaron

Man. You hit it. Because, you know, if years the barbecue is sort of like where everything’s kind of services, maybe, you know, so everyone’s having fun, that kind of thing. And that’s good. We should have rest and joy and celebration and those kind of things. But there there’s a lot of times where, like, we’re suffering is is very much in the front of the mind of the person.

00;06;07;02 – 00;06;21;25

Aaron

And that party is noise is not doing anything either, quietly suffering inside. And, you know, it’s one thing to have an encouraging word from a friend when life is grand, but it is absolutely critical.

00;06;22;12 – 00;06;22;26

Jon

When.

00;06;23;10 – 00;06;32;05

Aaron

When there’s a private hell being lived through. Mm hmm. And all of a sudden, that the sweetness of an encouraging word is unlike you’ve ever tasted before.

00;06;32;28 – 00;06;54;18

Jon

Well, and I think it’s because it gets quieter when things get harder. Mm hmm. Right. Like they. When there’s not a What is it? I if you if you give a like, gifts, you have a lot of friends. Right. If when you have abundance, it’s just easier to have more. So it’s like if you have a pantry and fridge full feed, you’re not.

00;06;55;20 – 00;07;17;14

Jon

You’re going to hopefully still appreciate your food better. Mm hmm. I have food. What am I going to eat? You know, you have choice. And it’s not like the gratitude is not the same. Right. I think we all just kind of routinely pick what fancies us the most and eat it and don’t think about it as much as we could and how amazing it is that we have a cold receptacle filled with food and a pantry.

00;07;17;23 – 00;07;38;12

Jon

Like, these are cool things, right? And it just the reminder, it’s so visceral because if you’ve ever gone hungry and then you get that meal, it’s like, Oh, I know, exactly. We’re talking about it in the same way. If you’ve ever gone through that dessert like that, that time of desperation of darkness in your life. Yeah, in the friends jump whoever in your life actually jumps into that darkness with you to push through it?

00;07;38;18 – 00;07;45;28

Jon

Yeah. It’s like, Wow, I enjoy having fun with people. But that was life changing. Right. I’ll never forget you. Right. You know, it’s different. Yeah.

00;07;46;11 – 00;08;07;10

Aaron

Yeah. When you. When you’re face like what you said, where it’s quieter, it feels like if you’ve ever experienced, like, if you’re going through grief and you walk into a crowd and you can’t hear it, you can’t hear the laughter anymore, or you can’t like it’s just it’s just like this low buzz. And you’re kind of like a dead man walking.

00;08;08;25 – 00;08;24;23

Aaron

The quietness is is terrifying. And and there’s. There’s a suspicion. There’s a lie that creeps in that says there there is no there is no satisfaction. There is no there’s nothing that will meet. Like, maybe I’ll just die of thirst.

00;08;25;06 – 00;08;25;16

Jon

Hmm.

00;08;25;26 – 00;08;26;16

Aaron

You know, it’s.

00;08;26;16 – 00;08;58;04

Jon

Interesting because I feel like you’re pulling on a different thread, and I want to explore it. Yeah. But I keep hearing this kind of Don’t bring your summer to my winter type of thing, you know? Right. Like, everyone’s. Because what I was saying is like, oh, when times are good and you’re celebrating of all these people and it’s fun and it’s great, but then when times are desperate in that one or two people jump like that one person or that those two people jump in with you, it’s like their value is worth more than ten times that you had in at times.

00;08;58;04 – 00;09;15;04

Jon

Yep. And then since that’s what we started. And then what I’m hearing is, Yeah, but what in your going through good times collectively, but personally, quietly, privately, you’re going through hell or winter darkness right now and what? Pull on that more.

00;09;15;16 – 00;09;27;24

Aaron

Yeah. When, when like the ten acquaintances aren’t worth aren’t even worth the one person who’s that cold cup of water when you’re going through a difficult time.

00;09;28;03 – 00;09;28;15

Jon

Yeah.

00;09;28;15 – 00;09;50;09

Aaron

And I also want to say to that these things are necessary. Like, I don’t want to speak ill of suffering in the sense that, like, we should avoid it. I mean, I think suffering is one of those things that just shows where you’re weak and you’ll then be hungry for that. The way to get strong.

00;09;50;15 – 00;09;50;25

Jon

Mm hmm.

00;09;51;04 – 00;10;06;17

Aaron

And in the way you get strong are going to be you’re going to be seeking things that you weren’t seeking before and your comfort, it will change you. You’ll come out of the suffering. And if you do it right, and if you have the right, you get to have an occasional cup of water for you to get through the desert, right?

00;10;06;19 – 00;10;25;00

Aaron

Yeah. You’re not going to get one every day, though. It’s not going to be comfortable. But when you’re when you’re going, when you’re going through hell, it’s just like it’s just what it is. It’s not going to someone telling you, Oh, it’s going to be okay and oh, let’s get through this really quick. That’s not necessarily the words you say.

00;10;25;00 – 00;10;32;14

Aaron

That person is just sort of like, okay, how can I suffer with you a little bit? Mm hmm. What can I do to walk through that?

00;10;33;04 – 00;10;41;23

Jon

Well, what I think you do sit on the too important is like, if you’re going through a tough time, it’s not that the friend rescues you. It’s that they go through the fight.

00;10;42;00 – 00;10;48;21

Aaron

They desperately want to. Yeah. That’s the thing. They want to save you. You know, that’s. That’s definitely there. But they can’t.

00;10;49;02 – 00;11;16;21

Jon

So it’s the choice to go through with you. Yeah, right. Like, and looking at that, there are ways that as a friend or I’m thinking specifically as a father. Right. I can stop discomfort for one of my sons. Mm hmm. If they’re in a circumstance. But oftentimes, I have to deliberately choose to stay my hand. Yep. And allow whatever discomfort they’re experiencing to persist so that they can learn from it.

00;11;16;29 – 00;11;17;26

Aaron

So it could be their teacher.

00;11;18;02 – 00;11;37;23

Jon

But it’s within the confines still of my oversight and protection. Right. That’s the great thing that they get in having a father. Right. Or a parent who can do that is like, I’m going to make sure this doesn’t kill you. I’m not going to save you. That is a choice. And it’s to their betterment. Right. And I think that there’s a lesson in that.

00;11;37;23 – 00;12;01;04

Jon

Also, when you’re dealing with friends. Like you can’t rescue someone from their own garbage if they’re going through something that’s self-inflicted. You can’t save them. Mm hmm. And if you do, you’re just going to repeat the function and create a cycle. So I think that’s pretty true most of the time. But you can walk through that struggle with them as they learn to save themselves.

00;12;01;13 – 00;12;30;11

Jon

Yeah. Right. As they learn to navigate it themselves. And I think that there’s a critical distinction there. I’m not sure if I’m saying it. Well, but I think that that distinction is life changing because, like, look at the dependency that a lot of kids have on their parents. Mm hmm. If if the parents just try to make life easy for the kids and protect them and insulate them, then they’re ill prepared for life.

00;12;30;11 – 00;12;35;26

Jon

And you see kids not leaving the house until their thirties. Yeah. Wow.

00;12;37;04 – 00;12;37;20

Aaron

I’ve noted.

00;12;37;28 – 00;12;58;00

Jon

Scott. Wow. Right. And it’s like, man, y y because you never coached and trained your child to become resilient, to face life. Yeah. To become strong enough to face life. It’s the same with friendships. So, like. And. And I can’t help but think when I want to save a friend who’s going through a hard thing, it should mean insecurity in me.

00;12;58;13 – 00;13;08;27

Jon

Yeah. So it’s like, how can I walk with them so that I make sure they don’t get destroyed and help them to the best of my ability, but not rob them of the joy of the lesson. Yeah, of their experience.

00;13;09;03 – 00;13;31;03

Aaron

It’s that’s when the hunger as hunger, as the best seasoning is. What we’re really joking about is the fact that, you know, it’s like a parent who’s arguing with their kid about food. It’s like, Hey, I’ll tell you what I mean, you don’t have to eat that. I all I have to do is wait. I’m not giving you anything else.

00;13;31;11 – 00;13;38;21

Aaron

You know, I grew up my my dad. If I complained about the chicken, he’d wrap it. And that’s what we had for breakfast. You know, that’s just how that works.

00;13;38;22 – 00;13;39;03

Jon

Love it.

00;13;39;21 – 00;13;52;21

Aaron

It’s just, you know, to this day, I’m kind of ruined for it when my kids leave a bite on the plate, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It’s like hunger will heal that problem of you folding your arms at the situation.

00;13;53;01 – 00;14;02;14

Jon

Yeah, I do love that analogy, because it’s just like you don’t need it. That’s why you want something else. No, I’m not. I mean, I don’t like an upset. Time will do its work.

00;14;03;06 – 00;14;04;03

Aaron

I don’t have to do anything.

00;14;04;04 – 00;14;12;23

Jon

Your stomach will turn on you, and you will love this meal like it was made with love. You will love it when you eat it. I don’t care if that’s still tomorrow or the next day.

00;14;13;11 – 00;14;15;27

Aaron

I love it. Isn’t it great how it’s built into us?

00;14;15;28 – 00;14;16;25

Jon

It is, yeah.

00;14;17;05 – 00;14;23;01

Aaron

Yeah. Hunger is a is a form of suffering, but at the same time, it points to something I could give as joy.

00;14;23;11 – 00;14;40;06

Jon

Well, it’s a motivator. Yeah, it’s. It’s a necessity. Yeah. Because if you don’t eat, you die. Yeah. So it’s interesting because I do think there’s different types of suffering in that they’re real. There’s real changes there, right? Yeah, there’s suffering. Like what we’re talking about right here. Where, like, you’re hungry and that’s a necessity. Then they’re suffering. Like you lose your spouse.

00;14;40;08 – 00;14;47;02

Jon

Mm hmm. To a car accident. Mm hmm. Right. There’s no reason for that. Yeah. Right.

00;14;50;05 – 00;14;52;16

Jon

There’s nothing that doesn’t make that suck. Mm hmm.

00;14;53;13 – 00;14;56;29

Aaron

So what then? What are you hungering for in that suffering?

00;14;57;23 – 00;15;25;15

Jon

Well, and that suffering, there’s loss. Right. So, like, I’m imagining, you know, if you’re in that position, like, that’s definitely. Don’t bring your sunshine to my winter. And I don’t think that it’s all tongue in cheek and fun. But I do think that there’s benefit and perhaps one of the benefits that you can create out of that despair is choosing to live a life that honors the departed and creates a better version of yourself in spite of the loss.

00;15;25;17 – 00;15;44;04

Jon

Yeah. Because I don’t know many people who love each other, who don’t want their partner to do better if they were gone. Yeah. Who don’t want their partner to do better if they’re gone? Mm hmm. Most, I think one of the one of the sacrificial pieces of love is like, Hey, if I’m gone, I want you to continue to thrive and grow and live a vibrant, fulfilling life.

00;15;44;08 – 00;16;11;13

Jon

Yeah. So it’s like, I don’t think that living in despair forever is part of that equation. No unnecessary season of grief. So it’s like I just want to counterbalance it because I do think that there’s suffering that is without reason. Mm hmm. But reason can be there’s at least redeeming qualities that can be forged out of the pain and the loss to create value.

00;16;12;19 – 00;16;35;28

Aaron

So here’s a just a complex that’s rattling around my head, sort of hunger. If hunger is going to be the motivator that we’re using to accomplish something that’s good, then maybe we need to start to ask ourselves what are we hungry for? And is it noble? Is it worth is it worth being hungry for? Hmm. Are we satisfying our hunger with the right things?

00;16;36;04 – 00;17;06;02

Aaron

Because hunger is a good thing. Like it’s a it’s a form of suffering that leads to you going and finding the thing that satisfies it, right? Mm hmm. So I would say, like, in the grief situation, I hope that you’re desperately hungry for healing and wholeness. Again, not my life is over. And I hope you know, I hope that also the person that’s thinking about how other people, what other people would want for them to and I’m just like, I’m even thinking like Jordan Peterson here, too.

00;17;06;03 – 00;17;27;18

Aaron

Like like he gives a great example about how someone who was near a near to a suicide victim blame themselves and just beat themselves up. Or what could I have done and what could I have said or whatever? And and Jordan has answers as he had. Have you asked your husband the same things? Like what could he have done to do something better?

00;17;27;18 – 00;17;40;26

Aaron

And she said, oh, absolutely not. And he said, Why would you do that to yourself? And friends have a way of of turning it back on us and going, hey, I don’t want this for you and I need you to agree with me.

00;17;41;20 – 00;17;42;00

Jon

Yeah.

00;17;42;17 – 00;17;55;21

Aaron

I want I want you to hunger for the right thing, because there is a path that that will heal you. And I want to make sure that it’s directed the energies correct. It is going towards the right direction.

00;17;56;04 – 00;18;20;18

Jon

Hmm. I can’t help but think when when you look at that, it’s like you can’t avoid. Right. Like, if you have to go through the stages of grief, you need to embrace it. Mm hmm. If you have to embrace whatever the problem is so that you can gain understanding of it enough that you can move forward. Hmm. Right.

00;18;21;18 – 00;18;26;10

Jon

And looking at time.

00;18;26;11 – 00;18;27;08

Aaron

Yeah. Time to do that.

00;18;27;08 – 00;18;51;13

Jon

It takes time, but also takes the choice to look at it. Yeah. Right. Like, there’s stages of grief for reason, but that requires you to walk through them. Yeah. Yeah. You have to embrace them. And it’s the same with that. A lot of these, there’s suffering. And you made a comment. Is it worth hungering for? Mm hmm. And I think that’s a really good question.

00;18;52;22 – 00;19;21;03

Jon

I at least myself, and I think that this is fairly true of human nature, have the propensity to stop design. What I have for what I want. Right. And it’s interesting, though, because there’s a few just simple exercises you can walk yourself through that can, like, just like, good medicine when you’re really sick or a good meal when you’re really hungry can completely change a script.

00;19;21;22 – 00;19;43;17

Jon

And one example would be like, just to start counting what your blessings are, what am I grateful for? And why am I grateful for them? Right? There’s actually large bodies of scientific studies that show changes in people’s lives just from doing that. Right. And one of the questions I asked myself earlier this week is what would I have said three years ago?

00;19;43;17 – 00;19;59;17

Jon

The gene from three years passed, if someone had told them, Hey, what would it be like if you had and then listed what my life is like today? Mm hmm. Right. Mm hmm. I know for a fact, after thinking about it for a little bit that three years ago, John would be like, How do we get there? Who’d have to her?

00;19;59;27 – 00;20;02;22

Jon

What about David? Who do I have to help? What do we have to build?

00;20;02;22 – 00;20;04;01

Aaron

I get all those things. That’s great.

00;20;04;01 – 00;20;15;23

Jon

I want to get there now. Right. Like I want to be there. Yes. Right. It’s like, Oh, my goodness. Look at this. Imagine the enthusiasm of who you were three years ago to be who you are today. Right.

00;20;16;09 – 00;20;24;21

Aaron

And that same excited John three years ago. What if I told him, hey, there’ll be days when you’re just totally ungrateful for all those things that you have.

00;20;25;03 – 00;20;25;25

Jon

It make you angry?

00;20;26;07 – 00;20;27;07

Aaron

Yeah, Like, are you kidding me?

00;20;27;16 – 00;20;46;22

Jon

What’s wrong with that? Turn right. You know, grateful to. Right. But. But it’s interesting because, like, I just thought of a counterpoint there. What if three years ago you wish and you told about what your life was? Now, in that version, like, I want to stay where I am. That’s a con. That’s a that’s a rebuke. Right.

00;20;46;27 – 00;20;48;15

Aaron

Let’s not be terrifying.

00;20;48;16 – 00;21;10;20

Jon

That would be terrifying. And maybe there’s circumstances that you’re walking through. Like three years ago, I had my wife and she died. Right. I would say that’s outside of this in that journey. But if it’s just like if it’s because of the choices I’ve made in life have meant that my life, my quality of life, how I’m living, how I’m interacting with myself and those around me is deteriorating, then that is where that’s a kind of nation.

00;21;10;20 – 00;21;27;22

Jon

That’s where that’s a rebuke of like if the three years past, you guys find it hard to imagine being where you are now. Mm hmm. Then there’s a how you are experiencing it interacting with life problem. Yeah.

00;21;28;02 – 00;22;04;02

Aaron

Right. Yeah. There should be a massive difference. Mm hmm. I think it’s a rebuke we all need to have. It’s like, have I changed in three years? Have things gotten better? And. And to the point of talking to the past person. Mm hmm. And if to say that the future version of you is going to be upset about this or that you’re talking about, gratitude is sort of an antidote to dealing and dealing with the suffering in a sense, like because we have a tendency to really focus on the negative things when there’s so many amazing things that are happening around us.

00;22;04;03 – 00;22;14;00

Aaron

Mm hmm. Like, really good things. And so, like, why is future John upset? Oh, well, you know, you get a flat tire and, you know, is his job is tough.

00;22;14;01 – 00;22;14;12

Jon

Or.

00;22;15;06 – 00;22;27;14

Aaron

Whatever his his kids are very energetic and they make him tired. He’s he’s upset that he is that he’s upset at the very things that bless him.

00;22;27;23 – 00;22;42;08

Jon

Or it’s just petty things. And it’s like we forget the goodness of the situation because of the flies or the irritants. Right. You know, it’s like. Yeah. Like three years ago, I was gone nine months of the year, like every year. And and I’m working from home 90% of the time.

00;22;42;09 – 00;22;45;14

Aaron

That’s the dream. So it’s compared to that reality. Gosh.

00;22;45;16 – 00;23;06;03

Jon

Yeah. And and, you know, there’s a lot of circumstantial changes in that, but it’s like, goodness gracious. Like you could have your circuit and and to me, it just goes back to go. Gratitude is so powerful. Yeah. Yet so. On usual to practice. Yes. It’s so unusual to practice.

00;23;06;13 – 00;23;15;23

Aaron

That’s what we’re talking about is cultivate. Ultimately, the core of this issues were cultivating gratitude because it’s the same burger, it’s the same bacon’s the same coffee. You’re just more grateful.

00;23;15;23 – 00;23;16;20

Jon

For your perspective.

00;23;16;25 – 00;23;18;00

Aaron

You’re just more grateful for it.

00;23;18;01 – 00;23;50;09

Jon

It’s perspective. And yeah, it’s interesting is hard hardness, struggle. Suffering is a natural law focusing agent, right? And it puts you in the mind state of gratitude being for having abundance, being comfortable, puts you in the in the opposite right now. You’re now you’re being bothered by the slight irritants, you know, like the small things and so that’s one of the reasons that we’re like, at least I know you are.

00;23;50;09 – 00;24;04;16

Jon

It’s hard to say. We are such huge proponents of doing hard, difficult physical challenges and getting our hands dirty and doing physical projects and doing all these different things and pushing ourselves because we can create some artificial, temporary suffering in our lives.

00;24;04;20 – 00;24;05;18

Aaron

It’s like our test tube.

00;24;05;26 – 00;24;22;28

Jon

Yeah. To keep us to keep the minds appreciative of when we’re not doing those things. So it’s like, and guess what? That’s just preparation. Life’s not going to be like people are not naturally good. Life’s not going to be great. Like life is going to have valleys with the rises. You know.

00;24;22;28 – 00;24;30;16

Aaron

This is this is why we talked about loving labor, not leisure, because we. Because leisure is sweetened by great labor.

00;24;30;24 – 00;24;31;05

Jon

Mm hmm.

00;24;31;11 – 00;24;45;06

Aaron

And like, I love the value of sitting in a chair after putting in a really hard physical work day or whatever. Yeah, I mean, don’t you just love that moment? Like, it’s satisfying. It feels great, but you have to earn it.

00;24;45;09 – 00;24;54;14

Jon

How crazy it is. Is it even to think that sitting down in a chair is a reward? Right. Like that’s a good example of the types of things here. Simple.

00;24;54;20 – 00;25;13;20

Aaron

Yeah, that’s the thing. It doesn’t it? Everything. The the taste of things. It’s like we’re saying hunger is a great seasoning. I think what we try to do for seasoning is we, we try to purchase the thing for the seasoning. And really it’s it’s not purchased with money, it’s purchase with effort.

00;25;13;29 – 00;25;14;07

Jon

Hmm.

00;25;14;17 – 00;25;19;26

Aaron

And that’s what makes it taste so good. Make your own meal once. It will taste better. It’s weird.

00;25;20;00 – 00;25;35;02

Jon

Well, it’s interesting because it’s like a lot of people are like time is money, right? Yeah, But really, times time. Like you just said, it’s purchased with effort. You can’t get a second back. You can’t get a minute. You are not going to be able to earn the hours you just spent back. Yeah. All you can, but you can earn more money.

00;25;35;02 – 00;25;56;25

Jon

So it’s like really no time is time. And if you’re not jealous of your time, you’re liable to waste it. Yep. You know, I just saw this idea. It was like Netflix isn’t 1799 a month. It’s your time. Social media isn’t free. It costs your focus. Mm hmm. Right. And I was like, Oh, that’s pretty cool. Like, that’s a powerful way to look at it.

00;25;56;25 – 00;26;20;12

Jon

Yeah. Yeah. And then right after that, I was having a conversation with Billie. I’m forgetting the name of the episode. It wasn’t just do it. Mm hmm. Oh, just commit to. Just commit from then. But we were talking yesterday, and he ended up sending me some things. And one of them. That was really cool. Is it this, like, little Instagram post from a dude named Emmanuel?

00;26;21;04 – 00;26;33;24

Jon

I want to say also, if I mispronounced it, I apologize, but I have no idea who that guy is. But what he said was pretty profound. I loved it. And it was People fail to achieve what they want most for what they want now.

00;26;35;11 – 00;26;41;08

Aaron

And that is interesting. Want most for want now.

00;26;41;19 – 00;26;50;16

Jon

In that goes back to to this whole perspective thing. Right. Like they’re stories of people who give up their inheritance for a bowl of soup. Yeah. Because they’re starving.

00;26;54;00 – 00;27;13;07

Aaron

If you know. That’s what we’re trying to talk about is we’re trying to take the same things you’re going to get in this world. We want the taste sweeter. We want you to enjoy it more. But it’s not going to be like if you fast track it without going through the process, it will never taste as sweet as you want it to.

00;27;13;19 – 00;27;29;06

Jon

Well, and also there’s the factor of how do you in the day to day when things are good, cultivate the strength to say no to the things that out of desperation you want now, right? Right of weakness or laziness or insert whatever you want now for the thing that you’re truly working in desire most.

00;27;29;26 – 00;27;42;02

Aaron

Yeah, it’s, you know because what it’s easy to change trading his inheritance for the stew now like I need I need satisfaction you know over an inheritance. Like that’s what’s greater.

00;27;42;10 – 00;28;03;02

Jon

What I want most is to be the best version of myself. Yeah. What I want now or what not. Right this second. What I want tonight is a couple of years. Mm hmm. What I want tonight is to not push intentionally into time with my wife. Mm hmm. What I want tonight is to use some stupid excuse not to be present with my kids.

00;28;03;03 – 00;28;26;11

Jon

Mm hmm. Right. But that’s not what I want most. And it’s in. In my mind. It’s. How do I create the disciplined response to say no to the things I want now, for the things that I desire most so that they can come to fruition? Yeah. Part one and then part two is how do I keep a grateful mentality that doesn’t cause me to begin to spurn that which I desired most in the past.

00;28;26;29 – 00;28;32;16

Jon

And I’m walking through now on this continued like crazy thing called journeying life, whatever. Yeah.

00;28;32;25 – 00;29;03;29

Aaron

And you have to experience that though, to understand that, because what you’re chasing right now is, is being deep, more deeply satisfied with what is which, which you already have for you without taking shortcuts that without spending time on just your own interest, that only serve you. You’re going, what if I really commit to having deeper intimacy with my wife and closeness with my kids and really show up at my job and really be a great friend?

00;29;04;19 – 00;29;05;10

Aaron

That’s what I want.

00;29;05;21 – 00;29;21;26

Jon

Well, for some reason, when you said the intimacy with my wife and invest in all those relationships that are critical. Yeah, I can’t remember where I heard this, but someone’s like, everyone’s always saying the grass is greener on the other lawn. False. The grass is greener when you water.

00;29;21;27 – 00;29;22;12

Aaron

That’s right.

00;29;22;17 – 00;29;48;19

Jon

That’s right. When you water it, it’s like you want to have a better relationship with your wife. Invest in it. It’s like it’s a it’s a it’s a mutual journey, which is. Which is funny, you know, talking about the love labor, not leisure. And we talked about the journey. Right. And there are some things that I think I’ve discovered in reflection that further some of the thoughts that we were exploring there.

00;29;48;21 – 00;30;07;03

Jon

Mm hmm. So, you know, in that you had mentioned that you realize when people become an obstacle, you’re too focused on the reward or the victory or the finish line of whatever you’re working on. Mm hmm. And when people are the problem, a benefit, right?

00;30;07;09 – 00;30;08;10

Aaron

Because there are people benefit.

00;30;08;10 – 00;30;20;13

Jon

Yeah, because they’re already the score problem. Right. When people are not the obstacle problem, but instead are beneficial to the process, then you realize you’re focusing more on the journey.

00;30;20;17 – 00;30;20;27

Aaron

Mm hmm.

00;30;21;16 – 00;30;38;20

Jon

And I realized, like, in the end, one of our entire premises in that conversation I walked away with is like, we want to focus on the journey. Right? Right. We want to make sure that we’re aligned with the correct mission and vision and purpose in being why belief that we’re doing it. And that’s what we’re aiming for. And we take account of that.

00;30;38;24 – 00;31;06;18

Jon

But we really want to focus on the journey of the daily step. And in where I got more from this in reflection was, am I enjoying the journey? Yeah. Or am I journey? So my focus is in the right area, but I’m filled with angst and just checking the block to get it all done in a manner that’s too task driven and not savoring the fruit of life, the joys of life.

00;31;06;18 – 00;31;24;20

Jon

Right. Because it’s like, why would I if I’m on the journey, but I’m just grinding. I’m not enjoying time with like I’m not enjoying the time I have with my bride. I’m not enjoying the time I have with my kiddos, with my friends, because I’m just trying to continue the journey. Then that’s another perversion of this. Yeah, right.

00;31;24;22 – 00;31;43;23

Jon

If I’m too focused on winning and everyone’s in the way. Number one, you know, falling short, I’m missing the mark. Number two is if I’m so focused on the journey that I’m not enjoying the the natural rhythms of it, the natural opportunities to live. Now, that’s another miss and that comes back to the hunger is the best seasoning.

00;31;43;27 – 00;31;52;23

Jon

Am I walking first and foremost with the gratefulness for the things that I’m experiencing now as if it was a meal that’s saving me from starvation?

00;31;52;24 – 00;32;15;06

Aaron

Absolutely. And I will say, and I’ll add to that, is that if there is if there’s something that you’re hungering for besides those things, then then think about making them inaccessible or make it very difficult to get to it. Because if you want to be more than you want time with your kids, that that that is the wrong hunger.

00;32;15;22 – 00;32;23;01

Aaron

And that’s something that’s getting away from getting you away from actually really hungering towards the thing that really will satisfy.

00;32;23;19 – 00;32;26;28

Jon

That’s why it’s an appetite suppressant, right? It’s a it’s a distributed.

00;32;27;15 – 00;32;27;24

Aaron

Yeah.

00;32;28;02 – 00;32;33;24

Jon

False. It’s like eating a candy bar. When you need a meal like nourishment, you’ll.

00;32;33;24 – 00;32;50;25

Aaron

Be I mean, you’ll be irritated. I mean, it’s like that’s the classic like, you know, just lazy dad, like sitting on the couch. I need my TV time. And if someone keeps me from that game, I’m just going to be irritated. How about this? Just take the game off the table. You don’t get the game. You don’t get you don’t get any of that.

00;32;51;08 – 00;32;52;19

Aaron

Now know you hungering for.

00;32;52;19 – 00;33;11;23

Jon

I saw this awesome. I was as I was running this morning, I heard this awesome rebuke to like the whole that whole stereotypical garbage you just mentioned where it’s like and now you see it on both ends. So it’s like really scary for kids, right? Both parents come home from work and like, I need to rest, recharge, and the kids are like, Well, I’m just a kid.

00;33;11;23 – 00;33;31;10

Jon

You, you chose to have. So it’s like, Can I be loved? But it’s such a great rebuke to the sentiment of like I went and worked hard today, whoever saying it, it was like for you, you better be working hard. You live in America if you don’t have a job. What are you doing? Guess what? If you were single, you’d still be working.

00;33;31;10 – 00;33;38;18

Jon

If you were single, you’d still have a job, right? So don’t use that as a petty excuse. You’re doing the bare minimum. You’re not doing.

00;33;38;18 – 00;33;40;02

Aaron

Anything. That’s right. That’s right.

00;33;40;08 – 00;33;43;13

Jon

Get the job done. Don’t act like you’ve done something. You’re no hero.

00;33;43;14 – 00;33;44;00

Aaron

That’s right.

00;33;44;00 – 00;33;44;12

Jon

You know.

00;33;44;22 – 00;33;53;22

Aaron

Like I loved it and get better friends because I thought if they’re not challenging it in that area. Yeah, that’s a little concerning. I love it. Listen to it again.

00;33;54;20 – 00;34;13;22

Jon

So looking through what we talked about and see if this drugs anything up from from your end, but just kind of reflecting on what we’ve explored so far, it’s like, okay, we’ve been playing with this idea of Hunger’s the best seasoning. And what that really has boiled down to is all three approaching life with correct gratitude in the correct things.

00;34;13;22 – 00;34;36;20

Jon

Yeah. Like are we being intentionally grateful and allowing that to fuel what we’re motivated for so that it’s worth pursuing what we want most? Yes. Over creating the discipline to say no to what we want now? Yes. And to live presently in that state of gratefulness. In appreciation, Yes. For things.

00;34;37;00 – 00;34;51;24

Aaron

Absolutely. And that’s what we want to encourage everyone here. And starting with us at the table here, is that this suffering is actually really worth it, cause you’re actually headed towards an amazing meal that you will just enjoy every bite.

00;34;51;24 – 00;34;53;01

Jon

Of if you don’t waste it.