Episode 24 from The Grit Theory.

Today we explore how to gain the upper hand in the internal conversations we hold with ourselves.

Highlights include:
– Forces within yourself.
– An authentic journey.
– Negotiating with yourself.
– A lie must be answered with a truth.
– How to become genuine & authentic with yourself.
– Desire is always there.
– Turning pain into pleasure.
– Hunger is the best seasoning.
 
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Also, check out Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be waymakers HERE.

Do you want to learn more? Check out:

The Book: Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be WayMakers.

The Podcast: “Be Relentless Podcast”

The Fuel: Sisu Stamina, Performance Evolved

Linktree: Here.

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Episode Transcript

00;00;00;06 – 00;00;04;08

Aaron

John, we are up and out of today as we talk about our inside voice.

00;00;04;14 – 00;00;04;25

Jon

Yes.

00;00;05;02 – 00;00;06;19

Aaron

Inside voice. You remember a kid.

00;00;07;12 – 00;00;08;20

Jon

You know, and like.

00;00;08;28 – 00;00;30;11

Aaron

This is me, maybe your child, I suspect maybe this is your childhood, but you’ve probably heard this a lot from the teachers or authorities and buildings where you’re supposed to be behaving. And they would say, John, you need to use your inside voice. You’re like, you know, I mean, inside of you. I but I am I have things to say and I want to express.

00;00;30;11 – 00;00;34;13

Aaron

I want to emote, you know, kind of thing. This isn’t appropriate in this environment to.

00;00;34;13 – 00;00;42;08

Jon

Act like this. That’s very complimentary because you’re assuming that I was not raised in the words like Neanderthal.

00;00;44;10 – 00;01;03;07

Aaron

So it’s like, you know, my kids like I’d ever send your kids to go get a kid, you know, and say, hey, can you go get your brother? And they’ll say, Charge, you know, just yell at the top of their lungs right in front of you. It’s like.

00;01;03;07 – 00;01;07;20

Jon

I could have done that. Not helpful. Yeah, not helpful.

00;01;07;20 – 00;01;29;28

Aaron

I wanted to go over and quietly asked them to come back, but. Yeah, but so. But in anyway, they’re teaching our teachers, really teaching us that there is a there’s a time and place and we need to maybe be a little more appropriate, but we’re talking a little bit more about motivation when our inside voice actually is really important, when we do need to stop being loud and we start need to get listening to our inside voice.

00;01;30;09 – 00;01;42;18

Jon

Know what you’re talking about. Here is the tongue in cheek plan words of inside voice, which is just had fun with to your inner dialog. Yes, right. Yep. In that transition to what does that inner dialog look like?

00;01;43;04 – 00;01;57;01

Aaron

Yeah. And what’s funny is we’ve talked to our guests and even the books we’ve read. It’s amazing how many. And even as we just spoke with Jeremiah Sullivan recently, his he said the voice that he needs to listen to is the one that is whispering.

00;01;57;09 – 00;01;57;20

Jon

Mm hmm.

00;01;58;08 – 00;02;19;10

Aaron

And it’s to me, like you would hope that it’s the loud voice that prevails. But if it does, we actually get weaker and we’re dealing with, okay, what is the quiet voice? What is the inside voice saying, and how do we listen to it more than the one that’s like yelling at us to quit or you’re not good enough, or all those things that really just stop the play?

00;02;20;24 – 00;02;21;18

Aaron

Yeah, there’s a.

00;02;21;18 – 00;02;47;12

Jon

Lot of examples and metaphors and analogies that talk about the power, the power of thought in the mind. Right? Like there’s an Indian story, like Native American story that some chief was, you know, mentoring, raising some young man and they were just having a conversation. And he’s like, there’s a wolf, there’s two wolves inside of everyone. One is good and one is evil.

00;02;47;27 – 00;03;09;05

Jon

And the wolf that will win is the one you see more. And you know, there’s another old adage where it’s like what you think becomes what you say, what you say becomes, what do we do? Becomes who you are, therefore what you think is who you are. So, like, it’s interesting because just on those two and you already mentioned Jeremiah Sullivan, he has a scar on his one shoulder.

00;03;09;05 – 00;03;17;04

Jon

He’s like this weak voice that tries to pull him into doing less right and live, you know.

00;03;17;04 – 00;03;19;23

Aaron

But a very alluring, powerful voice.

00;03;19;24 – 00;03;44;26

Jon

Yeah, it’s very it’s calling out his lesser man. Yeah, but it’s very alluring because who wants to do things that make you stronger? That is difficult and painful? And then he has, like he talked about the whisper on the other side or something. Yeah. So it’s an act of defiance, right? The desire for more. And yeah, so right there we just, like, rattled off, just three of a thousand examples I’m sure we’ll talk about.

00;03;44;26 – 00;03;51;19

Jon

Yeah. Of how people look at the forces within themselves.

00;03;51;19 – 00;04;13;16

Aaron

I think one of the things I think is a pitfall and I fall into this too, but you know, with even with social media culture right now, people are really quick to be loud about something. And I’m talking about like personal development and I can talk about other behaviors people do. But like somebody says, I am going to run every day.

00;04;13;16 – 00;04;35;13

Aaron

I’m going to do a I mean, that’s it. I’m going to do a diet or I’m going to whatever. I’ll read this many books this year and these kind of things, almost like these sort of resolution type statements. And and oftentimes I just feel like the better thing to do. I mean, that’s great to announce it. And I think you should be you should share the things that you’re challenging yourself in with people.

00;04;35;13 – 00;04;43;29

Aaron

I would just be more selective. I think it’s it’s better. The more important thing is, is are you telling yourself those things.

00;04;44;18 – 00;04;45;03

Jon

That you’re.

00;04;45;04 – 00;04;46;10

Aaron

Telling other people that say.

00;04;46;15 – 00;04;49;02

Jon

That’s such a good question because I am curious, are you calling me out.

00;04;51;06 – 00;04;52;21

Aaron

Now? There’s no passive aggressive here.

00;04;54;13 – 00;05;14;17

Jon

But but I’m having fun with that. No, no. But I’ve gotten into the practice of when I start a new contract with myself, which is why I’m not calling the challenges I post about it. But I’m really doing that for social accountability for myself. Yes, right. So like I 100% agree when I used to tell people, because for me it was like, I don’t want to tell someone, right?

00;05;14;17 – 00;05;35;20

Jon

Because if I tell everyone I know, right, Hey, I’m going to do like this hundred and ten days of five KS at 4 a.m. and stuff like that. Yeah, I don’t get I just removed an out for myself. Right. So, so to your point, I think if you’re doing it because you’re silencing part of your own weaker inner dialog that’s trying to look for outs.

00;05;35;23 – 00;05;47;07

Jon

Yeah. Go try it for a few days first and see if you want to stick to it or whatever. Then it can be a good thing. But if you’re doing it for like some bragging machismo garbage, that’s what you’re talking about.

00;05;47;07 – 00;06;04;27

Aaron

That’s a difference. I see. Yeah. The difference between are what’s the endgame? Are you trying to get a reaction? Other people, are you trying to actually have it? You’re trying to strengthen your resolve. That’s I think that’s the difference. So that’s where social media could be a tool. Yeah, It’s like, Hey, I got to put this out there because then when I’m weak, I need to look.

00;06;04;27 – 00;06;18;22

Aaron

Oh, yeah, I did. You know, I did say I was going to do it, so I’m going to do it. And I want to be someone who’s a person of their word. But if you’re just looking at, oh, how many likes shares I get, that is not the correct motivation if you’re really going to go the wrong way.

00;06;18;22 – 00;06;23;16

Aaron

And if you’re really going to change really your character, not just your physicality or whatever you’re trying to attack.

00;06;23;28 – 00;06;42;07

Jon

It’s interesting because I think just on that note, the social media aspect, it’s a it’s a very good tool. It’s a fire, right? Fire’s a very helpful tool. But just like fire me, you can burn the tarnation on yourself so fast and so easily. Yeah. And without, like, just the slightest slip and you start getting burned, you know?

00;06;42;07 – 00;06;59;12

Jon

And so even in really small ways and you just have to I’m not talking about like, you know, people are burning you. I’m just maybe you’re spending too much time scrolling or whatever, and you just have to be very intentional when you use it, right? Yes. Yeah. Which I’m trying to get consistently better at. Right. More parameters around how we interact with it.

00;06;59;12 – 00;07;19;06

Jon

When I use it to make it more and more of a tool and less and less of a burning up of unnecessary resources. Right. But I love I love the call out there because, you know, I sometimes do some cook baity things, but it’s very intentional to call out that I’m taking myself too seriously, which is just my.

00;07;19;10 – 00;07;40;29

Jon

It’s interesting that you said I think about this a lot because I don’t want to become some like social media cell type of thing. It’s more this is such a good tool for me to just batter myself. I’m starting to feel too like cool or whatever. I’m going to go do something stupid, like silly or Oh, I have like this voice of like, well, no one knows that you’re doing this.

00;07;41;13 – 00;07;46;10

Jon

You can get out whenever you want. Let’s just silence that voice. And once it’s silenced, it’s silenced.

00;07;46;14 – 00;08;08;08

Aaron

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I think what you’re what we’re doing when we’re sharing, what we’re what we’re. Whatever challenge we have is should be an encouragement. We should be doing it first to ourselves and then to others. Yeah. And that’s, I think as I’m getting to, I think people, even when it’s funny, when even when you state the thing, you’re not trying to encourage others in the negative reality.

00;08;08;08 – 00;08;21;09

Aaron

If you’re if you’re doing it the wrong way. In some ways I feel like people are just trying to elevate themselves like, Hey, I just want what, you know, I’m doing something. And in in their mind and you’re not neither Nina versus the the opposite.

00;08;21;23 – 00;08;23;07

Jon

Where where you’re going.

00;08;24;05 – 00;08;46;03

Aaron

Hey, I’m doing this and maybe you can’t do it if you want. I think you mentioned something this morning that you’re realizing is that as you challenge yourself more, you’re realizing in it in a authentic way. This is what I’m talking about, authentic sharing a challenge and living the challenge. You’re realizing the empathy for those who are also doing the same thing.

00;08;46;10 – 00;09;02;24

Aaron

Mhm. So you’re picking it up and going I understand what you’re going through, but then simultaneously having in-patients with those who are maybe saying they’re trying challenges, but they’re really not pushing themselves or acting like it or talking about it or.

00;09;02;24 – 00;09;25;08

Jon

Actively just swallowing self-deception. Right, Right. There’s some people in my life right now who I’m watching them lie to themselves and I’m hoping it’s just the season. Yeah, right. But it’s also hard to say. I. I want to keep walking to you, brother, but like this. This, like, has to stop, right? Right. Because otherwise we just can’t keep doing this.

00;09;25;08 – 00;09;41;22

Jon

Yeah. You know, and and it’s. It’s more of heartbreak than chaos. Yeah. And obviously there’s conversations around it and some of it’s just like letting people go on their own journey and get to where they need to on their own. You’re right, because it’s a mix. But yeah, 100%.

00;09;41;28 – 00;10;07;04

Aaron

One of the top bestsellers of all time besides the Bible, it’s got number one is a book called Pilgrim’s Progress, and you may have read the book, but if you haven’t read it before, it’s actually a brilliant book on a journeying through life. And it’s an allegory of of someone who is journeying up this mountaintop, which is ultimately allegorical of heaven or his salvation.

00;10;07;16 – 00;10;31;04

Aaron

But along the way, it’s really interesting, all the people in his life, these are friends and family members, even his wife, that that will portray him or will will keep him from from walking out this path that he knows he must do. And in. So how does end how he deals with that and and how at times he gets captured and stuck in and he can’t go on anymore.

00;10;31;04 – 00;10;48;19

Aaron

And how, you know, how does that play out? But the journey we have, oftentimes we we have to start with what is my inside voice telling me, what is that mission? I am on? Because if I don’t tell myself, others will. And that’s what gets really dangerous.

00;10;49;16 – 00;11;18;08

Jon

Yeah, it’s like if I don’t choose how I’m going to use my time. Others will fill it. Yeah. Yeah. So, so going back to the like, we’re talking a lot about the journey itself, but the, the inner dialog on how we interact with ourselves in different impulses and feelings we get really dictates a lot of that journey and the thought patterns that I allow myself to have right, really will dictate how the day goes, how I’m responding in the circumstances I’m in.

00;11;18;28 – 00;11;51;18

Jon

Right. And in, you know, for myself, I really see my conversations with myself and my mind as I’m thinking as like, Oh, a war between who I can become and the lesser man who’s the opposite of who I can become. You know, on the to end of extreme in sometimes it’s like the Cold War where it’s like super small whispers of deception and like, Oh, you can be tired in this or you can be impatient.

00;11;51;18 – 00;12;19;17

Jon

This they’re acting crazy or whatever. And sometimes it’s like I am in the garage screaming at myself. Simon waits around in a full on battle of some idea that I’ve come to you, Right? But for me, that’s how I relate to it. And it’s either that, you know, war of deception or complete just all out like rage fest against myself, trying to get dominance over a weaker version of myself who would not serve my family, my wife as well myself as well.

00;12;19;19 – 00;12;29;00

Aaron

How do you can you can you tell me what the characteristics are of the what’s called the the voice that is the weaker man?

00;12;29;04 – 00;12;30;22

Jon

Yeah, well, for for.

00;12;31;06 – 00;12;35;01

Aaron

For fun, the insidious sort of. You know, you don’t have to do this.

00;12;35;23 – 00;12;58;05

Jon

What’s even worse than that? It’s like, Yeah, it’s. You don’t have to, you know, wake up at fours one side of it. It’s also like you can look at that other woman or you can drink that bottle of whiskey or it’s destructive, right? It goes again, it look like so on one part. I just want to be selfish and free and free.

00;12;58;12 – 00;13;07;19

Jon

That saying quotations in a self-serving type of way and just pursue pleasure. Right. But that leads to a road of nothingness.

00;13;08;04 – 00;13;14;12

Aaron

Would you say that voice has almost always in it an endgame of pleasure or comfort?

00;13;15;05 – 00;13;33;03

Jon

I think that’s what it’s evolved to, is to just be anger in my walk. Me personally, it used to just be anger, want to see things burn. And then it’s evolved into, as I’ve resolved a lot of that, to like, oh, let’s just let’s just not quit. Can we avoid the burden of what you can become? Mm hmm.

00;13;33;20 – 00;13;51;08

Jon

And sometimes, you know, like I said, that it’s not it’s not uniform for me, it’s very much so, depending on the circumstances. What part of myself I’m fighting. But it’s like I was thinking about this. I saw this post the other day in the. And the guy wrote a daredevil and he wrote like, a note is kind of a stance of defiance.

00;13;51;27 – 00;14;13;25

Jon

And in that I went on a run, you know, I was thinking about it and I was like, Hey, mine would be a little different because I realize that if I fall, I’m allowing a weakness that could cause many more to fall. Not that they would fall. I’m causing a weakness, you know, for my wife, for my children, for those I work closely with.

00;14;14;12 – 00;14;43;06

Jon

So it’s like not only do I have the joy of pursuing this for myself, but I have a duty to these other people. And that lights an additional fire within me to not give an inch, you know, And in for me it’s like, yeah, I can remember the successes I’ve had in the past when I’m struggling or grinding, but when that even runs dry, I can just remember those whom I’m setting an example for or fighting alongside and I can pull additional strength from that.

00;14;43;22 – 00;15;08;19

Jon

So so for myself, it’s it’s very much so this I want to put to death this weaker lesser self in the pursuit of whatever the maximized potential of me can become. But I know that’s not the uniform way of self dialog. It’s just that there’s just a few minutes on on how I do it. And that’s one flavor, right?

00;15;08;25 – 00;15;25;02

Aaron

It’s so it’s like stepping away from your own situation so you can have another angle on it. It’s like, Hey, if I was, if I were looking at it from my wife’s shoes, what would she want from me or what would she want for me? I should say that from me, but or what is what is that friend that in my life?

00;15;25;02 – 00;15;34;13

Aaron

What do they really want for me? Mm hmm. In the new year? Motivate yourself. Sort of like, Hey, you know, those are other people that are. I really do care about. It’s not just my voice that matters.

00;15;34;23 – 00;15;50;25

Jon

Well, yeah, it’s like the best way I can look at it is probably my sons, because I have four boys and. And they’ll watch the crowd out of me, so. And I can see it because they parrot things that make me feel great, right? The work out and staff inside Gaza. Then they’ll peer at things that make me feel horrible.

00;15;51;08 – 00;15;55;28

Jon

Like they’ll choke a sparkling water. I got a beer and I’m like, Oh, man.

00;15;56;07 – 00;15;59;22

Aaron

Yeah. Eric Candy Cigarets are a thing when you’re a kid. Probably for a reason.

00;15;59;22 – 00;16;36;21

Jon

Exactly. Etc.. Watch and so it’s like, man, if you just pay attention. And that’s why I think one of these things is if not, I think that if you aren’t aware of these opposing feelings within yourself, it may just be from a lack of allowing self awareness, because I think even if you are close to mastery, whatever the heck that would look like, you would have an awareness of like, no, I’m, I’m in a place where I’m able to mostly maintain and more disciplined and controlling the direction I want to go.

00;16;37;05 – 00;17;01;20

Jon

Not so much that this other part is not there. And so if you feel like, no, I’m in complete unity with myself and I’m doing exactly what I want everything else to take, maybe, but it’s probably more likely that you’ve just not slowing down enough to realize that you’re slipping and not climbing, or that you’re climbing so hard that you don’t realize in one area that you’re looking at these other critical factors and becoming a different type of monster.

00;17;01;24 – 00;17;09;26

Jon

Yeah, yeah. But, but I, I kind of strip it down to that, that mentality. How do you see it?

00;17;10;25 – 00;17;45;17

Aaron

I’ve had to learn as I’ve gotten older how just unique I am as a, as a person. So and and I think everyone’s unique and I’m saying I’m unique in my uniqueness. But I will say that it was it was evident early on that I’m going to be someone who is going to stand out. And just because of the personality pieces I have and not always in a good way, it’s just I’m going to be I’m going to have to deal with the awkwardness I have or the way I see things or the way I or how impulsive I can be on something when other people know to, you know, maybe you should sit down,

00;17;45;17 – 00;18;07;27

Aaron

buddy. You know, like it’s always been that way. Like class clown when I even in elementary, middle school and just goofing off because I just had this inside of me realizing how much I want people to react in a moment. And that was just fun. You know, that’s not a good thing in your student. And a teacher is trying to keep Yeah, keep order in the classroom.

00;18;08;15 – 00;18;30;26

Aaron

There’s a time and a place, but it’s like if I had if I had and I did Four Seasons led groups of people tell me you’re supposed to be this person or act like this, that that’s a state of misery because it’s not who you are. And if if I were mature enough in high school and how many of us were to say, you know what?

00;18;30;27 – 00;18;40;06

Aaron

No, no, no, this is this is how I made and people don’t agree with it. Yeah. Hey, I’ll be respectful and that kind of thing. It’d be it didn’t they. They don’t get they don’t get a vote who I’m going to be.

00;18;40;27 – 00;19;01;12

Jon

I love that you just shared that because I think that’s part of the evolution right? Yeah. When you don’t have the confidence or self-awareness or maturity or understanding whatever, I don’t know exactly how to describe it. To realize that you’re those negotiations need be with yourself and everything else is just data, right? It’s just data to help influence your decisions.

00;19;01;12 – 00;19;21;12

Jon

Yeah. Then you do have other people depicted. I just like listening to you. I just thought I had a couple of memories come back of, like, some foolish, asinine things I did in school trying to seek approval and gain social capital with people that I don’t even remember their names now. And, you know, it’s not callous. It’s just a long, long time ago.

00;19;21;22 – 00;19;41;17

Jon

And yeah, it’s really interesting because it’s like if you I’m just thinking the juxtaposition, right, is if you overly care about what others think your actions and therefore who you’re becoming is dictated by them. But if you filter it really carefully, it’s like if you tell me something, we have the relationship, I’m going to pay close attention to it, evaluate it.

00;19;41;23 – 00;19;59;27

Jon

Yes, I’m going to test it and see what I need to do, if anything, or how extreme I need to react based on the information, because we have that trust. Yeah, same with like my wife and some others. But if I’m, you know, in a social setting and there’s a bunch of people in there, oh, you should do this.

00;19;59;27 – 00;20;05;21

Jon

And then they go, okay, you know, it just it’s different, but it’s part of that evolution also.

00;20;05;22 – 00;20;24;05

Aaron

There is, yeah, there’s wisdom. And what is Because you don’t want to be like I don’t I don’t want to excuse away bad behavior because like, this is who I am. Yeah. You know, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking a lot about talk about things that maybe are unique to you, that are natural gifting, that can be honed and gifted.

00;20;24;20 – 00;20;39;18

Aaron

I’ve heard too many times, and even in even as I get honest with myself, there were certain things that I knew about myself that I let other people tell me who I wasn’t squashed down. So they became these loud voices when I really should have been like, you know, this is really who I am. And it’s not going away.

00;20;39;19 – 00;20;40;20

Aaron

It’s who I want to be.

00;20;41;17 – 00;21;04;24

Jon

You know, it’s interesting because you said they become these loud voices in your mind. And just also, you know, verbally they’re talking to you. But it’s wild because when you’re talking about where I really think this inner dialog comes to a head is when you have decided that I want to evolve, transform and become a better person. You write that and maybe that’s one of the keys.

00;21;04;24 – 00;21;17;10

Jon

If that’s not a decision you made, maybe it’s not there. I don’t know. I hope to never know because I want to keep growing as long as I live. So there will always be this dissonance between who I can become and who I am.

00;21;18;04 – 00;21;41;23

Aaron

What loud voices I think are I really just a gift to those whose inner voices are getting strong? Yeah, because like you said, if you say anything, you’re actually being consistent. You’re going to make people uncomfortable. Yep. And the more the more uncomfortable someone gets, the louder they get. And it’s almost like you kind of you it’s almost an encouragement.

00;21;41;23 – 00;21;46;27

Aaron

It’s like if you’re doing something, it really matters. You’re being consistent and people are getting more and more angry with you.

00;21;47;28 – 00;21;48;08

Jon

For.

00;21;49;12 – 00;21;55;25

Aaron

For unwise reasons. Yeah. Not talking like you’re cutting them off in traffic. And this is what this is my knee really.

00;21;56;10 – 00;21;57;21

Jon

Like, unjustified. It’s like.

00;21;57;26 – 00;21;58;08

Aaron

Yeah.

00;21;58;08 – 00;22;04;14

Jon

You’re doing something unprovoked of you doing it. It’s just frustrating them because it’s holding up a mirror. Yeah.

00;22;04;19 – 00;22;20;11

Aaron

Like you simply are holding an ideal that you’re only committing to yourself. And they themselves feeling as if they’re being attacked. This I mean, this happens each time you do any kind of a, any kind of a discipline, you know, people and people see it like.

00;22;20;22 – 00;22;44;05

Jon

You know, along with that and in the pursuit of like becoming better, that’s where I think this dialog really comes in, because that’s where you have these these moments, right? Like you’re you’re less yourself or that that voice that wants to give you an out right that part of you it knows all of your weaknesses, it knows all of your fears.

00;22;44;19 – 00;23;14;17

Jon

And that’s when they surface. You know, like for me, the hardest part of like the morning stuff I’m doing right now is not even just getting out of bed. It’s when I stand up and I feel some of the pain in my tendons and it’s like, you have 108 more days and it’s like, I don’t care. I have today and I have a plan where more intelligently actually addressing this problem and I’m going to do it, you know, and you just have to combat it.

00;23;14;17 – 00;23;36;01

Jon

And that’s I think that’s the thing. You have to take a lie must be answered with the truth and or a decision. It can’t just be ignored. So it’s like what I’ve raised of myself is, oh, you’re not going to make you have 108 more days. False. That’s not true. You know, here’s how I know I’m going to make it.

00;23;36;01 – 00;23;51;24

Jon

I’m stretching for 30 minutes a day. I’m doing this for bah bah bah bah bah bah bah. Or just sometimes, too. It’s just, hey, shut up, right? Like, sometimes you just have to tell yourself to be quiet. Stop. I’m not thinking right now. I’ll think it in a few minutes when I’m a little bit more awake or whatever.

00;23;52;00 – 00;24;17;27

Aaron

Like I love it. You said you kind of resurgence now, but it’s in a lie. Must be answered with the truth, because that to me is the the voices. I’m not saying I’ll voice, but most of the time I’ll say the crowd will yell at you with some kind of a lie. They’re going to say something that will challenge you, and it’s your job to figure out what the truth is so that you don’t you don’t get convinced otherwise.

00;24;17;27 – 00;24;37;21

Jon

Well, it’s like becoming genuine and authentic with yourself. Yeah, right. And I think that’s what we’re talking about. We’re admiring from, you know, the perspectives that we have of things that we think are good some some genuine this month intensity out there and remind you of, like the kid who loves punk, he’s like, I’m going to be original and therefore love punk and therefore fit into this entire.

00;24;37;22 – 00;24;38;09

Aaron

Range that.

00;24;38;09 – 00;25;01;04

Jon

Was punk. It’s like, well, there’s nothing truly new, but the best thing you can do potentially is become authentic to the best of your ability to yourself. And and, you know, coming back to the two voices, right, Or that inner dialog, the inside voice, I want to rephrase the question, re-ask it to you. It’s like, how do you negotiate with yourself?

00;25;01;04 – 00;25;24;03

Jon

Because we start talking about some other things. And, you know, for myself, it’s very much so either deceptive debate or violent confrontation. But I know that consistently in the, you know, when I’m really strong and winning, I still have that thing looking for a weakness to try and slow me down, bring me down, make me accept less of myself.

00;25;24;12 – 00;25;49;02

Jon

And that is a constant thing, right? It not to the point that it’s like burdensome, but I just I’m aware of it, right? So I have to always be prepared to continue going in the direction that I think is beneficial. So for you, how do you relate? Because right, like you have a scar in a symbol like Jeremiah, you have a war with the lesser man like me.

00;25;49;22 – 00;25;55;09

Jon

Do you scream at yourself in the mirror like Goggins? What is what is Aaron’s flavor?

00;25;55;09 – 00;26;16;04

Aaron

You know, my flavor is I like to set myself up for a situation where I can win. And the place I win is in competition. Meaning? Meaning if. If someone says if there’s ten people in a room and all of a sudden you said competition, that like that piques my interest right away. Like, we just want to see who can do the most of this thing.

00;26;16;23 – 00;26;44;20

Aaron

I’m like, okay, now I’m in and in some other voice. It’s like, okay, are we going to win the contest? Are we going to lose the contest? And I will say every time I will be max effort and I will exceed whatever my own expectations are. If you tell me there’s a competition and I may not be the strongest guy in the room, but if you’re giving if you give me parameters by which everybody can accomplish it, you know that the level of entry is the same for everybody.

00;26;44;20 – 00;26;48;26

Aaron

We may all have different talents, and I kind of think that’s that’s enough for me. That’s all I need.

00;26;49;26 – 00;26;57;04

Jon

So like, a great example would be I could add my distance race for right? Everyone has the same distance to travel. Yeah.

00;26;57;09 – 00;27;18;21

Aaron

Yeah. Or we but at the same time all those people don’t have the same amount of experience. Maybe, I don’t know, or whatever it may be. It’s less about, less about just, just talent and more about whether or not someone could be consistent in something or they can see themselves as a winner. That’s more that kind of thing.

00;27;19;01 – 00;27;39;18

Aaron

So like, I just I think I just like I like it when I can see if I can accomplish is for me. I was like, I wonder if I could win this competition with myself. I don’t want to lose the competition if I tell myself out that that’s what it is. What’s the win? I guess the goal has to be really clear How do you win this thing?

00;27;39;29 – 00;27;47;24

Aaron

And then and then the voice is easy because it’s like, we’re not winning, we’re falling behind. You’re not going to get this thing.

00;27;47;29 – 00;28;28;15

Jon

Well, that’s why I think The Voice is that that’s at least in my mind, this is our. Yeah, yeah. You know, it’s not in the the fun things where there’s, like motivation flash and stuff. It’s one more attempt at more clarifying. What I’m seeking here is there’s a reason that this time because I just started 110 day contract with myself or for him I wake up and run a5k and you know, the last hundred days I tried this, I got an injury and had it changed up some, there’s a reason I’m doing it for him though, and that’s because I know I’m going to face more self adversity and louder voices of dissent against who

00;28;28;15 – 00;28;43;07

Jon

I can become at 4 a.m. by myself every day for 110 days. Yeah. And that’s what I want to get stronger. And yeah, you know, I want to get stronger at not just ignoring, but refuting myself at my weakest.

00;28;43;15 – 00;28;44;04

Aaron

That’s good.

00;28;44;04 – 00;29;12;20

Jon

And so that’s the specific discipline I want to attain. So it’s like, how’s that for you? Like when you when you feel the most insecure, the most likely to fail, you’re hungry, you’re tired, you’re depleted, and a choice is presented to you that you can give more or you can give less and you’re at you’re struggling. How how does that dialog go for you?

00;29;13;25 – 00;29;23;01

Aaron

I remember what it feels like when I pulled back and I still finished, and I was how disappointed I was in myself.

00;29;23;05 – 00;29;23;15

Jon

Hmm.

00;29;24;03 – 00;29;28;08

Aaron

I, I just realize how long.

00;29;30;09 – 00;29;30;16

Jon

How.

00;29;30;16 – 00;29;42;19

Aaron

Long the struggle will be with myself if I did pull back and I got to contend, I have to contend, but I have to live with myself that I didn’t give all I had.

00;29;42;27 – 00;29;45;02

Jon

You left it on the. You didn’t leave it on the field.

00;29;45;02 – 00;30;09;11

Aaron

Yeah. Yeah. That’s the whole thing. Like, as tired as I am, as much as I don’t want to do a thing, I actually can do it. I really can. And I think that’s what I had to realize, is that you’ve felt this before and then you get to the end and you realize you had more every time. Yeah, that that’s and that’s that is, that is really irritating, especially if it’s a long, long goal.

00;30;09;11 – 00;30;18;24

Aaron

And it’s like you, you had had you just pushed that last little bit, you would have won and you would have validated this entire thing is showing that you can do it. I just don’t want to do that at the end.

00;30;19;13 – 00;30;43;05

Jon

Right? It’s the so really, really awesome book I’m reading right now. It’s called The How Bad You Want It. It’s like a sports psychology book. And when the premise is so true that it’s it’s talking about the true weightiness of the fact that it has your perception of that hurt with the strong effect that that has on things.

00;30;43;19 – 00;31;04;21

Jon

Because like you just described, if you go and you run a mile, you do whatever is hard, right? When you’re done, you know, immediately if you could have given more, right, like the pain goes away, go. That wasn’t as bad as I thought. I feel if I could keep going that. But I thought I was giving everything I had.

00;31;05;01 – 00;31;11;14

Jon

It’s that lesson that I think you’re talking about, right? It’s like, Oh, my perception of this being difficult was wrong. It was lying to me.

00;31;11;29 – 00;31;31;10

Aaron

Don’t. Yeah, don’t. Don’t tell yourself how much you have when you’re at the end of the race. You tell yourself that you have at the front of the race. That way, when it comes to you, when it when it’s when you’re contending with yourself, you go, No, no, no, I know what I have. Yeah, I already, I already told myself what I have.

00;31;31;17 – 00;31;45;24

Aaron

In fact, my goal is to beat that perception of what I thought I had and and not to concede at the end because because that voice will tell, you know, you never had it. You shouldn’t even been in this thing in the first place. That’s the hard part.

00;31;46;03 – 00;32;04;27

Jon

So it’s for you. It’s very much long and short term competition in. And am I giving all of myself? And your counterbalance is I’m leaving something. I’m not giving enough of myself to feel accomplished here or are you here? Is that a fair assessment? Okay, cool.

00;32;05;00 – 00;32;25;03

Aaron

Yeah, it’s that it’s the I mean, the imagery for me is, is the incline or is a sales contest. I did or, or whatever. It was not about me beating the people. It was me about me seeing if I could see if I was good enough to even be in the room. I think it’s the more the biggest thing.

00;32;25;08 – 00;32;27;06

Jon

So your mind’s like in the arena of competition?

00;32;28;11 – 00;32;46;19

Aaron

Yeah, It’s like qualifying myself to. To be one of the people that tried it. Because I’ll be. I’ll be okay if I. I lose to a great person. But I went way further than I would have gone on my own. That’s fine. I’m good with that loss. But ultimately I want to. I want to prove that I am a contender.

00;32;46;23 – 00;32;48;00

Aaron

You know, I’m going to go for it.

00;32;48;15 – 00;33;08;07

Jon

And you want to build the trust in yourself that you’re going to give it everything you have. Yeah, yeah. That she that, that that’s where I can absolutely relate. And we just have to analogies, right? So that’s your flavor in minds but it’s in the pursuit the same thing do I trust if I say I’m going to do something, I’m going to do it, and not that I’m just going to check the block, but I’m going to give it everything I have.

00;33;08;11 – 00;33;30;27

Jon

Mm hmm. I think that’s like the proceed. Right. And it’s interesting because if you come into a point of friction in the pursuit of something where you’re questioning your resolve, like, why in the heck am I doing this right? Because because that, you know, that it’s it’s there’s seasons and differences in how the conversation plays out as you go through struggle.

00;33;30;27 – 00;33;58;21

Jon

But it sometimes just comes down to a simple question do I want to push harder into this despite knowing if I can give you any more more than I want to lay off? Yeah, right. And when you if you study endurance races, you see a lot of that. Like if yeah, when you know you’re on mile 90 of 100 and there’s you know the two leads are competing with each other, they’re fighting each other.

00;33;59;01 – 00;34;19;01

Jon

But they’re really fighting. Do I want this more than I want to give myself the opportunity to breathe a little bit more? Yeah. I want this more than this other guy wants it. And it comes down to, you know, what do I want more in that in your competition thing, It’s like, well, if I’m giving everything I know, I can give.

00;34;19;01 – 00;34;37;04

Jon

Do I want this more than calling that good enough? Yeah. And who knows, maybe you are giving everything you have and it’s not enough, but maybe you find more and you can push even further. And then that now sets a new minimum boundary in your mind that you can point to to say, Nope, I got this. We can keep going.

00;34;38;10 – 00;34;38;20

Jon

You know.

00;34;39;00 – 00;35;04;12

Aaron

I think it feels like a fight between the peacemaker and the peacekeeper, because the the the peacekeeper is one that’s like, I don’t wanna argue about this anymore, let’s just concede and whatever. And then so much negativity pulls into that and so much toxicity lives there that the peacemaker says, okay, I’m willing to have the hard conversation, argue whatever it takes because.

00;35;04;24 – 00;35;08;19

Aaron

Because I want to live in a house. Yeah, I want to live in strength and I want to live in growth.

00;35;10;06 – 00;35;32;19

Jon

Yeah, I agree. I think that looking at it, what that just reminds me of is that even though we’re talking about, you know, your inside voice, your inner dialog with yourself, the conversations you have when you’re alone and tired and hungry and or the conversations you have right alongside someone in some form of extreme output where you’re just questioning your why am I here type of moments, right?

00;35;32;19 – 00;36;09;09

Jon

Why am I trying? Why am I doing this? It’s set in advance by that which you allow to influence yourself, you know, whether it’s something you’ve read or ameliorate or the people have in your life. I think that there’s a direct correlation over time, whether you want to call it a, you know, what in the law or your ecosystem, whatever it is, if you have people who are pulling more out of you and speaking life into the better version of yourself, you’re going to, I believe, be better positioned to go further than if you don’t develop that network of support.

00;36;10;01 – 00;36;16;17

Jon

Or even worse, you allow yourself to be comforted by being around a bunch of people who aren’t striving for better.

00;36;16;23 – 00;36;38;02

Aaron

I completely agree. I think what you’re saying there is the people in your the people in your life should be I is a physical manifestation of what that inside voice looks like. And what I mean by that is, is that when I’m healthy and I’m listening to my inside voice, I say things like, Aaron.

00;36;39;00 – 00;36;39;25

Jon

You you’re.

00;36;39;25 – 00;37;03;26

Aaron

A contender. Like you’re dangerous. When when there’s a competition, you’re a good friend. You’re someone who shows up. You’re someone who’s authentic. When I’m weak and I’m listening to that other voice. Yeah, I’m worthless. I shouldn’t even be here. People are better off without me being in the room, and your friends are the ones that bring you back to that and say, What?

00;37;03;26 – 00;37;14;02

Aaron

What are you talking about? That’s not who you are at all. Real friends. The good ones. If you picked them right in the room, they help that little voice get louder.

00;37;14;02 – 00;37;36;27

Jon

I think that’s part of the natural filtration process or maturation of who you spend your time with, because we all have this friend. You’re like, Oh, man, just take tonight off, let’s go hang out and do this. And sometimes maybe that is the thing you need most and you’re just being bullheaded. But I think most people can empathize and understand what I’m talking about here.

00;37;36;27 – 00;37;54;22

Jon

We all we all know those people. It’s like, No, I’m on this plan. It’s disciplined, it’s balanced. I’m I’m I need to be and therefore, I need to fulfill this commitment. It’s a car. And I just just let’s go do this instead. Or why don’t you just rest me? And it’s got to be tiring. And it’s like, there’s that voice, right?

00;37;54;22 – 00;38;12;23

Jon

That type of friend inside. I don’t know about that. And then you have the other friends like me and I’m tired and beat up. And instead of encouraging, Yeah, you should rest, you should rest if that’s not the dire necessity that you have. It’s like, Aaron, you’ve done this before, You’ve done this every day. You’ve shown up. You can show up today.

00;38;12;23 – 00;38;23;14

Jon

It doesn’t matter if you set a record today for yourself, it matters that you show up. You can show you got this man. Yeah, like that’s the type of friend. It’s like, no, don’t give yourself an out right now. You don’t need this out. You need to show up. Yeah, right.

00;38;23;17 – 00;38;25;02

Aaron

It’s like, you sound like my inside voice.

00;38;25;09 – 00;38;42;20

Jon

Those are the two different types of people. But we, we all have both people and sometimes we, we have to live with both types of people. And the question then is like, oh my goodness, depending on the relationship, how do I help influence a voice that may be more like this to become more on the like more on the influence of voice.

00;38;42;20 – 00;39;09;09

Jon

It’s more on the Stop making me uncomfortable with your pursuit of a better version of yourself into someone who’s a change, who is more likely to champion my growth because it’s become attractive to them and they want it for themselves as well. And now we’re co journeying together, right? And that’s the thing we were talking earlier about. I don’t know who coined it, but it’s like people are putting your life for reason or season.

00;39;09;21 – 00;39;29;01

Jon

Yeah, right. And I even, I even think we talked about this last week, Jeremiah But it or I don’t recall. But at the end of the day it’s like we want to cling. We’re like naturally sentimental creatures, especially with friendships. It’s like, Oh, but they were my friends in high school that, that’s great. That was a great season.

00;39;29;01 – 00;39;58;02

Jon

Maybe. Maybe they should still should be. I don’t know that that’s part of the evaluation, but just because they were doesn’t mean they are or should be right. And in that I don’t know it’s a difficult journey to to assess. Right. But maybe I’m not good for them or maybe they’re not good for me. Or maybe we’re both great, but we’re going in different directions and therefore impeding each other unnecessarily because we’re being over sentimental.

00;39;58;02 – 00;40;12;12

Jon

It’s not like you have to break up with people. It’s just like sometimes you just have to let it go and let it naturally flow where it flows and realize, Hey, we’re going in directions that we have less and less touch points, but maybe we touch every talk every ten years and it’s wonderful.

00;40;12;23 – 00;40;22;06

Aaron

Yeah, it’s like the ecosystems we talked about. Yeah, it’s like, I got it. I got to change the environment I’m in right now so that I can accomplish this thing that I know has to be done.

00;40;22;18 – 00;40;48;09

Jon

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, right. Like looking and look at what we’re doing with this. And it’s nothing special, but it’s special to us, you know, this being the growth theory, it’s like we are showing up early in the morning to make this happen. We are hitting our other workouts. We’re prioritizing time on our weekends, having, you know, done the family social negotiations with our family and trying to share the joy of this with them out of love.

00;40;48;09 – 00;41;09;26

Jon

Right. So it’s a positive thing. It’s like all those things demand sacrifice. And sometimes that may be in relationships with others or it’s with the comfort yourself or whatever. But I guess this conversation’s a lot more complex than I thought because you can’t really I’m finding I can’t really pin down like, okay, so what’s the key take with the inner voices, right?

00;41;10;05 – 00;41;10;12

Jon

Yeah.

00;41;10;18 – 00;41;17;18

Aaron

You wish it was sort of a sequence. Okay, here’s my to do list when when the chips are down. Okay, Step one. You know.

00;41;17;28 – 00;41;59;03

Jon

It’s a bag, man. It’s a marie Murray bag. It is a swamp. And the only thing I can think of, if I had to draw a line the best I could keep the conversation is when you’re talking about having an opposing inner dialog with yourself. Good luck. It’s probably. It’s a journey unique to each person. But I think the court record said to doing it is being still and silent enough to acknowledge what’s at play in your own head is coupled with putting yourself in positions that push you out of comfort so that both voices become active at once.

00;41;59;04 – 00;42;00;13

Jon

Mm hmm.

00;42;01;15 – 00;42;02;18

Aaron

And what are you going to do about it?

00;42;02;24 – 00;42;21;21

Jon

And then? And then? Yeah, then it’s what are you going to do? Right? Because it’s just like, I have no idea what it’s like. I have no idea what the dialog is. It’s like, okay, are you pushing yourself but genuinely pushing yourself to accomplish more in some areas? Yeah. And are you allowing yourself the time to be still and think about what’s going on inside?

00;42;22;01 – 00;42;37;23

Jon

Yeah, if you’re doing both, I would posit that then you’ll start to kind of get that feeling of like, Oh no, I’d rather sit on the couch or sleep or whatever versus go out into that room just as a metaphor and or as an example. And then you can be like, okay, how am I responding to those two desires?

00;42;38;16 – 00;42;54;13

Jon

Right? Because typically, like for the right, it’s like, how am I going to feel when I’m done? And and then for the feeling of staying in bed sick. Well, I know how I’m feeling now and it’s pretty great. So it’s like, how do you do in the dissonance? And this is another thing I just realized I want to hear your thoughts.

00;42;54;13 – 00;43;08;04

Jon

This is it’s how do you deal with the dissonance between two things you want? Yeah, yeah. That’s part of this, right? Yeah. Because you want to stay in bed. You also want to get up and grow and become something more. So it’s, it’s answering the question of which do you want to feed?

00;43;09;27 – 00;43;43;25

Aaron

The tension, I feel is that desire is always going to be there in some direction to do whatever you know, we enjoy, be they novel or nefarious, you know, that we have to deal with. We have to contend with. But I’ll say that the the problem that we struggle with right now, I think it’s is we’ve we’ve had we have never had more pleasure available to us, more comfort, more things we can do or or just enjoy or whatever is all there.

00;43;45;02 – 00;44;08;07

Aaron

The entertainment that we are exposed to is off the charts like we’ve never had before. What we have. And but what they do is they serve as distractions. The word amusement means amuse means to think. A means to not amusement is literally not thinking. And we have an entire society, entire culture that says don’t think, enjoy, be entertained.

00;44;08;26 – 00;44;35;22

Aaron

Which you’re talking about right now is like when you when like you know which desire I go to. Well I would say the question that should come first we’re talking about is what is what is who am I really and what do I really want to achieve? Because you can have entertainment along the way, That’s fine. But it’s it’s absolutely subservient to what am I trying to accomplish with my life?

00;44;36;16 – 00;44;47;22

Aaron

And that’s because we’re and this is why I say we’re in a not thinking culture, not thinking disallows you from even asking the question. So is my inner voice saying.

00;44;48;04 – 00;45;13;03

Jon

So on that point? Yeah, this idea jumped to my head. It’s like, okay, 150 years ago, instead of ignoring the question, the question was the another question was louder in that surviving. Right? I need to ensure that I have enough resources that my family and I don’t starve to death. You know that whatever threat doesn’t kill us.

00;45;13;04 – 00;45;15;22

Aaron

It wasn’t like, Shall we dance? It’s like, well, first.

00;45;15;27 – 00;45;45;20

Jon

Yeah, exactly. So it’s like because I’m just thinking it’s like, okay, over time, right? And there’s always been pockets and small percentage of people who have to contend with that question or who ignore it and do the amusement thing right? So we always have those pockets of society, but for a long time in human history, most people may never have gotten to the chance, the chance to actually ask that question because they were not in a resource rich enough environment to be afforded the opportunity.

00;45;45;20 – 00;46;04;17

Jon

Right? It’s like, I need to build this house so don’t freeze this winter. I need to make sure that put a crop in the field so we don’t start. I need to hunt so that we have dinner, you know. So if that’s it goes back to I forget the guy’s name, the hierarchy of needs. And so that is a acceptable reason not to ask the question.

00;46;04;27 – 00;46;24;05

Jon

But you’re talking about is we live in a time now where the majority of the population, instead of a small minority is able to is has this question looming in front of them. And I think the proclivity is to pursue amusement in entertainment and distraction over facing the question.

00;46;24;05 – 00;46;26;18

Aaron

Yes. I mean, hedonists make terrible farmers.

00;46;26;28 – 00;46;28;29

Jon

Yeah.

00;46;28;29 – 00;46;54;29

Aaron

Their the whole time complaining about the entire the process and the farmers like I’m putting in the seed because the mission is water nurture this thing and there will be fruit someday. But if you never if you don’t understand that, you understand why you’re doing this thing, you’re just going to be mad at the dirt and wondering if you can go play and do whatever you want while weeds grow in the garden and that that may be your life and maybe what you decide to do.

00;46;55;19 – 00;47;00;14

Aaron

But we’re talking about, yeah, I’m really focusing on making this successful.

00;47;01;12 – 00;47;24;15

Jon

It’s interesting because there’s a lie that I think it’s a lie that pain is pain and pleasure is pleasure, right? So why would I ever do this uncomfortable thing? Because it’s just painful. But I’m in the discipline of retraining my mind to think that which is uncomfortable and painful is the most fantastic pleasure imaginable.

00;47;25;10 – 00;47;26;13

Aaron

Happy in your pain?

00;47;26;13 – 00;47;54;16

Jon

I’m happy in my pain because I firmly believe, aside from that self contentment and acceptance and peace and peace is probably the biggest thing. At least I’m in pursuit of right contentment and peace to be okay. Sitting still with myself, I think it’s going to encourage my sons to be better men, I hope, and my wife to to live a more vibrant life.

00;47;55;01 – 00;48;27;02

Jon

And outside of that, it’s really my wife lives more vibrant life and then my sons to become better men. And then outside of that, to to encourage my friends to the same. But that’s what brings pleasure. It’s like, okay, if I put myself in this terrible situation that I absolutely abhor and hate and it is terrible, I over time in learning, I can actually find more and more pleasure in the pain of the lesson, knowing how much better I’m going to be able to sit with contentment myself and therefore love those around me.

00;48;27;04 – 00;48;30;16

Jon

Mm hmm. That’s really good. That’s really good.

00;48;31;04 – 00;48;59;23

Aaron

And you’re talking about because. Because you’re putting the time in. It’s almost like you can drink deeper of the things that are in your life. Can really you can find more happiness in contempt because you allowed yourself to go through the difficulty of the pain, painful process to. And so that should bring you joy. It’s like because when one shakes hands with the other, it’s like, why would I be mad at the labor of the thing when I realize that brings this wonderful fruit in my life?

00;48;59;26 – 00;49;11;21

Jon

Yeah, it it also makes the pleasures more pleasurable, right? Yeah. And when something is good in the proper season and the proper time, that’s wonderful. And it’s like hunger is the best seasoning.

00;49;12;09 – 00;49;29;23

Aaron

I absolutely in a hunger is earned, man. Yeah. I mean, if you’ve ever had a big long hike day or something that was really exerting or even you just, you just went through some really challenging thing in your life and for a long period of time, panels mean that food tastes so good at the end of the day, doesn’t it?

00;49;29;23 – 00;49;31;23

Aaron

It’s more than it ever has before.

00;49;31;24 – 00;49;46;09

Jon

It’s just like the nights that you get in bed. Like, I know I need to sleep so I can perform better tomorrow. I’m checking the block versus nights for you. Hit that bed like haggard, smoking and torn up and you’re like, This is such a gift. Like, just you’ve laid down your life. This is wonderful.

00;49;47;21 – 00;49;54;05

Aaron

Ever bit into bread and just savored every chew. Every chew like, oh, okay.

00;49;54;28 – 00;50;06;20

Jon

Exactly. And that’s where it’s like you had the pleasures become better, the gifts become sweeter as well. That’s even an additional thing in choosing to engage in this inner dialog.

00;50;06;27 – 00;50;26;28

Aaron

Absolutely. Absolutely. So I think as we think about our inside voice, I think, one, I take the time to think about what that is. And then secondly, think about how how often you’re listening to it and and then thirdly, and I think most importantly is what it what it what activities are happening as a result.