EXPLORING THE TOOLS THAT UNLEASH HUMAN POTENTIAL
Episode 22 from The Grit Theory.
Today we explore the value of:
Highlights from our conversation include:
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Linktree: Here.
00;00;00;24 – 00;00;02;07
Jon
Yeah, I’m just going to snap.
00;00;03;18 – 00;00;10;29
Aaron
Oh, that wasn’t really good. Here, let me try that. Okay. Good morning, John.
00;00;11;12 – 00;00;12;05
Jon
Good morning. How are you?
00;00;12;24 – 00;00;23;22
Aaron
Well, you know, I originally came into the studio, so. Jim, Jim, then slash studio a little bit in a state of storm panic.
00;00;23;23 – 00;00;24;07
Jon
Why?
00;00;25;13 – 00;00;48;18
Aaron
Well, I made the terrible mistake of sleeping in late, which is one thing. I hate being late to stuff. But then I knew I was going to be late coming to see you, which is like a different thing. And you don’t. I mean, you’re a gracious guy. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to paint this picture. But you’re also a you’re also not one that hides emotion.
00;00;48;18 – 00;01;16;06
Aaron
And and I and I also appreciate that you’re you’re going to just get the consequence out of you. You know, it’s like, okay, he’s not going to distill on this. I know that. So it’s like, right when I knew you were saying, Hey, I got to wake you up, but really it was I’m sure it was some it was a punishment of some kind, you know, like he threw me the rope, you know, put me on this terrible running circuit just to wake me up.
00;01;16;11 – 00;01;21;08
Aaron
I mean, just like that’s mean, but not mean. It’s like what a good friend should do, I suppose.
00;01;21;08 – 00;01;22;17
Jon
But seven months from hell.
00;01;23;07 – 00;01;27;13
Aaron
It woke me up. I mean. Hello, everybody. Good morning. Well.
00;01;28;07 – 00;01;31;28
Jon
I realized when you almost hit me in the car because you didn’t see me.
00;01;32;28 – 00;01;34;03
Aaron
But. Oh, you saw that?
00;01;34;17 – 00;01;41;06
Jon
Yeah. I realized, like, he’s going very fast to make it to my house. Yup. And I need get off the road now.
00;01;41;18 – 00;01;43;20
Aaron
Now I kind of wish me if I grazed them a little bit.
00;01;43;20 – 00;01;54;26
Jon
Yeah, but you’re going to, like, fast enough. That would hurt. But the second I heard your voice, and I hear that sleepy sound like trying to still jar yourself out, and I knew I had to help.
00;01;55;00 – 00;01;55;09
Aaron
You out.
00;01;55;10 – 00;01;55;27
Jon
As your friend.
00;01;55;28 – 00;02;05;17
Aaron
Thank you, John. Mm. Yeah. So, anyway. Yeah. So I’m feeling great. Good. But it’s because I have this terrible, I mean, great friend to give you up in the morning. Thank you.
00;02;05;19 – 00;02;25;08
Jon
We just keep it fair. Yeah. But good. Yeah, That was our wake up, and it’s kind of an ironic opening. In fact, I think it’ll add context to our conversation because it’s a kind of a fresh counterbalance to some of the things that we are going to talk about this morning. Right. And as always, our conversations are our journey to better understanding for ourselves.
00;02;25;11 – 00;02;41;20
Jon
Yep, They’re kind of three things that we are working to kind of hone in on with intentionality. Yes, kind of about it. We are going to hone in on with intentionality this morning and today we’re going to discuss the value of one saying no, the art of saying no.
00;02;41;21 – 00;02;55;12
Aaron
Mm hmm. I like that word art, by the way. Like, you know, like art versus science. Yet science is very clinical. Step one, two, three. But saying no is not so cut and dry. It’s it’s something it needs to be practiced.
00;02;55;15 – 00;03;25;28
Jon
It practiced in. There’s intuition to the nuances of the moment. All that. Yeah. So we’ll get into that problem start there. To use contracts in transactions with yourself. Mm hmm. Which should be fun. And then we just have a passion for redeeming Gwen show time. So I’m sure they’ll come up as we talk about it. But those are the three, the nuggets, the art of saying no contracts and transactions with yourself and redeeming when show time that as we were brainstorming, we’re like let’s let’s see how much of that we can talk about in the morning.
00;03;26;07 – 00;03;30;06
Aaron
Absolutely. That’s great. So should we start with artists saying, no?
00;03;30;06 – 00;03;33;05
Jon
I think we just start there and see where the conversation takes us.
00;03;33;17 – 00;03;59;23
Aaron
Okay. I can be a bad the chief of centers in this, I used to say, like I feel like saying yes is the has immediate gratification in it. It’s so alluring. Like when someone asks you to do something, when you hear something that you can do, you’re able to do it. It’s easy to raise your hand, say, yes, I’ll do this.
00;04;00;08 – 00;04;28;01
Aaron
And that’s that’s noble. But what we’re talking about is is saying, yes, when you should be saying yes, when you’re not measuring what you are saying yes to already what you need to say yes to in the future versus what you’re just saying yes to really mindlessly. Hmm. And that’s I’m just John, as you think about what you say, yes and no to, how do you measure that?
00;04;28;03 – 00;04;45;02
Aaron
Like, is there something is there a way that you kind of give yourself a litmus test? Are you are you pausing before you say anything and then and then come back to people like what has been your rhythm or or maybe what is your ideal trying to grow in that?
00;04;46;00 – 00;05;11;05
Jon
Yeah, that’s right. I think it’s definitely growth thing and there’s no rival there for myself, at least in and I really suck at it. So by, by nature I’m actually kind of a people pleaser, especially that only the people care about, but I don’t know is uncomfortable. It is often uncomfortable. But yeah, one of the things I’m trying to get better at is saying no more often so that my yeses can be more powerful.
00;05;13;04 – 00;05;19;05
Jon
In that I can genuinely believe and be behind the things I commit myself to. Mm hmm. And that’s. That’s a journey.
00;05;20;02 – 00;05;29;16
Aaron
When you say no, you said something to me the other day, I that was was good. Is that learning how to not excuse away and. No. Yeah, explain that to me.
00;05;29;22 – 00;05;50;27
Jon
Well, just to the people pleaser part, Right. Hey, can you help me move or. Hey, can you help me do this? Or. Hey, can you come to this event? Right. Like that? Of course you want to say yes because you don’t wanna let the person down. But when you realize the answer ought to be no. And there’s a lot of reasons that that might be, then it’s like, No, I’m not going to be able to make it.
00;05;50;27 – 00;06;07;06
Jon
Thank you for the invitation. Mm hmm. That’s all that you need to say. But for some reason, at least in myself, I struggle with this feeling of desire to like, No, I can’t, because I’m doing this with the kids or I have to get this project done or I have to do that. It’s like one they didn’t ask to.
00;06;07;06 – 00;06;24;07
Jon
It’s another business. And in that not in a callous way, but just frankly, in three. Like, what kind of precedence is that set for yourself? Like let your yeses be. Yes. And your knows me know. Mm hmm. Right. So it’s just like, no, I’m not going to be able to make it. But thank you for the invitation. Like, that’s a fairly gracious way to say no.
00;06;24;07 – 00;06;44;10
Jon
And if they say, why not, then they’re opening up the door themselves. Mm hmm. Right. Right. I just hope nobody move. And I was talking to another body on the way home, and we were kind of talking about the same conversation. And like, someone had asked me a couple of weeks ago if I could help them move. And, frankly, my weekend was, quote, unquote, wide open, right.
00;06;44;11 – 00;06;59;02
Jon
As I didn’t have any, like, hard time engagements. I always have things to do and family to invest in. And I told them no, sorry, I’m not going to be able to help this time, but think Thanks for telling me. I wish I could be there to help. Mm hmm. Well, but I didn’t see the wish part. I guess that wasn’t true.
00;06;59;28 – 00;07;18;08
Jon
I said I’m not going to be able to help this time. And they said okay. They’d ask me. Mm hmm. It just went on and I spent that time where I needed to do. I didn’t have another commitment. I didn’t have an excuse. Mm hmm. I spent it in the thing that was higher priority and needed it. And that was a good confirmation for me to stay the course, right?
00;07;18;15 – 00;07;38;21
Aaron
Yeah, that’s good. And we have to. We have to also remember that when you have people in your life, too, you’re not saying just yes to your own schedule. You’re saying yes to other people’s schedule, that they may be depending on you or might want to have you around. And that’s something I have had to learn to to to not be so focused on your own little world, too.
00;07;39;20 – 00;07;57;19
Jon
Yeah. Because if you think about it, like we both have a group of kids in, in wives, and if I say yes to something, it’s taking from all six of ours time. Mm hmm. Especially on the weekend when it’s not during my normal work schedule. Right. So that. That’s what I hear you talking about there?
00;07;57;25 – 00;08;15;19
Aaron
Yeah, I have. I’ll tell you what. What I have. This is what happens to me inevitably, is like, I don’t count the cost of my. Yes. Mm hmm. Until after I’ve said yes. And then I’m, like, kicking myself. You know, you may have done this. Like, I can’t believe I said yesterday, and now I got that. Mm hmm.
00;08;15;29 – 00;08;39;12
Aaron
And then you’re like, they get the worst of you. Like, you know, when you show up to that thing, you’re not prepared. You’re not. You don’t really. You’re not really present. You’re grumpy. You might even be snide, you know, and maybe make biting remarks and stuff. Like, if you’re going to do that, you can’t say yes. You almost get to take a beat and be like, Can I say yes to this if you’re certainly going to do that?
00;08;39;27 – 00;08;56;27
Jon
Yeah, the delay man is huge, right? Because like if you give yourself the chance to heal, like one of the things because I’m not I’m not good enough at saying no to trust myself, to give an answer upfront. So I say, let me get back with you. Mm hmm. Right. Like, that’s. That’s what I’m saying. Good train, good tactic.
00;08;57;10 – 00;09;18;11
Jon
Right. Because then I can give myself the space to actually think about it, because I’m not. Likelihood is if I give a off the cost response, unless I have some really clear reason I can’t do something, it’s going to be a yes, because that’s my tendency. But I don’t want that to be my tendency. So I’m trying to overcome that by let me get back to you.
00;09;19;09 – 00;09;39;17
Jon
So that way I can be more certain because like you, right, when you realize that you said yes to something you shouldn’t have. Yeah, right. Even if you can have a good attitude about it. Right. You’re not giving everything you have. It’s kind of like with the hospitality. You don’t want to, like, eat something from someone if they’re begrudging it.
00;09;39;25 – 00;09;48;05
Jon
Mm hmm. You know, so that’s. I’m the person who gives the answer, though. You know, the person who requests it. Right. And that’s just part of the ownership thing, I think.
00;09;48;06 – 00;10;08;09
Aaron
Yeah, exactly. Well, because you can’t you can’t discount what what kind of tax that’s going to give you when you say yes and you shouldn’t and you should have said no. And this is something we were talking about the other day, too, is that we had to get to realize that when you say no, it is it is hard.
00;10;08;09 – 00;10;27;01
Aaron
And then the front end, like it’s not it’s not been a different because you’re like saying no sucks. It’s not it’s not fun to say no. Okay. But what is fun is that your mind is free after that. Correct. You have no contract after that. When you say yes, feels good upfront. The contract remains that you don’t even want to have.
00;10;27;01 – 00;10;44;00
Jon
And then you pay the price. And that and that’s what’s interesting. So, like, one of the aspects of transactions with yourself is like if you look at an item, say like this mug, you know, let’s say this mug cost $50, right? Which it does not. And if I wanted to keep this mug, I’d have to buy it for $50 right now.
00;10;44;07 – 00;11;09;02
Jon
Mm hmm. Would I buy it to keep it right? The answer would be no. I depart. And part ways of this mug. If it was three bucks, would I keep it? Yeah, I’d pay three bucks to keep the mug. So in the same way, when you’re saying, like, I think that it’s a good analogy that I’ve started using with, like, people who ask things of me also, because if it’s like, Hey, we come to this event, I’m like, okay, it’s 3 hours away.
00;11;09;06 – 00;11;32;04
Jon
That’s 6 hours of driving. Mm hmm. Am I willing to spend 6 hours of driving to be at this event? If the answer is yes, right. It’s not about the person. It’s not about anything else. If the answer is, it’s sometimes it may be, but I’ll go with the answer’s no. I’m not willing to invest 6 hours for that event, even if I love the person dearly, because then you spend that 6 hours elsewhere, because it’s not just the event.
00;11;32;09 – 00;11;35;05
Jon
Yeah, right. Then I’m not going to buy it.
00;11;35;28 – 00;11;48;12
Aaron
I have a notice that as people get into higher levels of authority and success as far as their. The scope of management. Mm hmm. They hire people to say no for them.
00;11;49;16 – 00;11;50;09
Jon
I think it’s funny.
00;11;50;25 – 00;12;10;19
Aaron
Yeah, It’s like it’s a job. Yeah, And there’s something to that. Like, why is it that someone needs to be saying no to them? Well, because those that person, that level has to absolutely say yes to those three or four things that they’ve decided to do and has to be very careful about the things that are taking them away from those things.
00;12;11;03 – 00;12;28;05
Jon
Yeah. And that’s part of the filtration process, right? Like when you get to a level and you have that many opportunities coming in, you need to have the criteria set and someone can help filter that. So you can say yes or no to a smaller number. Right. But in the day to day, you’re probably have enough that you can just set the boundaries up to filter them for yourself.
00;12;28;17 – 00;12;43;28
Jon
Mm hmm. And, you know, kind of diving more into the transactions, right? Like, am I want to invest that time, yes or no? That’s kind of helpful. You know, you’re sitting at a meal and they’re like, Oh, you got the tab, right? If that wasn’t your intent, part of the conversation, the answer is no. And then say no, because that will also poison you, right?
00;12;44;11 – 00;12;49;23
Jon
It’s different scenarios. But then I think we call it the art because there’s so much finesse to it.
00;12;50;05 – 00;13;09;12
Aaron
There is. Yeah. There’s graciousness to it. Like, I don’t want to discount like we’re not trying to be jerks or anything, so and nor would I would ask any of our listeners is I would just I would just caution anybody that’s, that’s a yes man all the time. That sounds noble. And there’s some things you do need to start saying yes to.
00;13;09;12 – 00;13;23;22
Aaron
And we talk about that, too. Like, as far as new habits and attitudes, those are great things to do. But if you’re just trying to please someone else other than you and what priorities you’re trying to accomplish and you know what you need to be doing, that’s something you really need. Challenge.
00;13;24;06 – 00;13;46;08
Jon
Yeah, absolutely. And and looking at that, it’s it’s because everything comes at a cost. Right. And if you’re giving of yourself like that, then it’s it’s degrading. You and saw this wonderful quote the other day. I absolutely loved it. I keep seeing it, but essentially don’t do things that compromise yourself or don’t do the things that compromise your strength or your character.
00;13;46;17 – 00;14;00;17
Jon
Right. And and as I’ve dwelled on that, I was like, you know, big failures don’t happen typically in the in the split second decision that leads to them it’s it’s a thousand tiny.
00;14;00;17 – 00;14;01;14
Aaron
Compromises.
00;14;01;14 – 00;14;09;12
Jon
Yeah compromises Deteriorations and and I’ve done a lot of challenges over the last coming up on a year I think Monday.
00;14;09;21 – 00;14;10;20
Aaron
28. I sit on.
00;14;10;20 – 00;14;12;04
Jon
The board that 29 and the updated.
00;14;12;05 – 00;14;13;08
Aaron
Oh okay.
00;14;14;18 – 00;14;51;13
Jon
Uh on day 29 of 100 on on this one and I realized they’re less so challenged. They started as like physical challenges to maintain fitness, but they really contracts with myself to strengthen my character. And I remember a long time ago, you and I talked about relationships kind of being like bank accounts. Right. I remember we talked about this like with the water and the loan analogy in episode one, but if everything you do with someone is a transaction like as a metaphor financially and you’re either putting money in the bank or doing a withdrawal, right?
00;14;51;13 – 00;15;12;09
Jon
Deposit withdrawal. I think this same analogy works really well with how you interact with yourself. You know, if if I say I’m going to wake up at four or five or six or seven, whatever. Mm hmm. And actually sleep that I’m taking or withdraw on my ability to trust myself, that if I say I’ll do something, I’ll do it.
00;15;12;16 – 00;15;35;22
Jon
Mm hmm. And if I do wake up and I say, I’m going to I’m putting capital into the bank, investing in myself, knowing I’m on a very small level, that I’m going to do what I say. Mm hmm. And, you know, as I just keep pulling on that thread and said, okay, every time I miss and I do withdrawal, it’s like ten bucks every time I hit it and I do a deposit, it’s one.
00;15;35;26 – 00;15;55;05
Jon
Mm hmm. So there’s there it’s definitely a hugely disproportional cost. But over the years, you know, I think that’s what degrades you. If you say you’re not going to, you know, you wake up from a fun night of drinking and whatever, and you wake up and you even hate your workout, maybe even wake up on time because I’m not drinking tonight.
00;15;55;11 – 00;16;08;12
Jon
Mm hmm. And then that night, you justify drinking? Mm hmm. That’s not a big deal in the moment. It’s not a big deal for the day. It’s not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. But if you do that often, it will start to degrade your trust of, like, if I say I’m going to do something, I’m going to do it.
00;16;08;22 – 00;16;13;01
Jon
Yeah. And then that can start to be a slippery slope in a lot of things.
00;16;14;15 – 00;16;40;10
Aaron
You’re really you’re raising the fear of your compromise, if that makes any sense. Mm hmm. Like you’re like who you are when you’re weakest is going to affect you. It will affect the strong version of you, too, because it’s the same person ultimately has to deal the same consequences. So if you know there’s weakness there, then those contracts strengthen that.
00;16;40;10 – 00;16;44;07
Aaron
Like you’re kind of killing at least the worst part of the weak man.
00;16;44;12 – 00;16;44;23
Jon
Yeah.
00;16;44;23 – 00;17;14;18
Aaron
And you’re making him at least a little bit strong because you’re going to be weak. Like, that’s not that’s never going to go away. There’s going to be a part of you that’s always going to want to do the thing that’s competing with strong John and strong self. So I think it’s that you’re kind of doing is you’re saying to yourself, those weak moments are going to be fewer and fewer or they’re going to be less consequential as I make these deposits into this equity that which I believe is I believe in myself, I’m making contracts with myself and I can believe myself when I say I’m going to do something.
00;17;15;12 – 00;17;42;01
Jon
Yeah, absolutely. And the one thing that is interesting is things that I’m really hard on myself now are things I didn’t even consider compromise a couple of months ago. Mm hmm. So there’s things that, like, I would have done and just walked past that. Whatever. And now it’s like, No, that’s wrong. That’s compromising yourself. Yeah. So, like, you start to build momentum in, like, compound interest, right?
00;17;42;01 – 00;18;05;18
Jon
The more you invest in this thing, like, I think I did, I think I’m somewhere around 275, 300 ish days of these contracts with myself, these daily challenges since last Thanksgiving. Mm hmm. It’s a it’s a lot the majority of the time. Certainly. And now if I do something that’s against my, like, my conscience, that little voice is getting stronger.
00;18;06;03 – 00;18;27;11
Jon
The the part of me, like, I think we’re all at or struggling between who we can become and who we are. Right. Like the thing that scares me most, and I do think I mentioned this often is if I, you know, don’t die swiftly and I’m on my deathbed in the version of myself that I could have become walks up to me.
00;18;27;22 – 00;18;41;13
Jon
How different is that going to be? Because what I don’t want to do is have that person come up and be like, shame, look health like for you failed to not come. Like, Yeah, I want to be better than that person.
00;18;41;14 – 00;19;10;20
Aaron
Goggins said that like this. I know you and I, You just finished it. I’m going through. Can’t hurt me right now. And great book. And not a not a light read. It’s it’s it’s gets pretty gritty, which we appreciate. But he says in in the I would call the podcast section of the audible which I love that that when they’re just talking back and forth he says there’s so many men out there that don’t realize there’s a version inside of them that’s that is there and it could be born.
00;19;10;20 – 00;19;27;17
Aaron
And Goggins points to, you know, his £175 versus £350 self that he was born. ABS is the same guy is is this guy came out of that guy and and so many men are not realizing their true potential. Yeah and women both obviously but yeah.
00;19;28;06 – 00;19;44;24
Jon
You had to be off because I was going to say people for sure because it’s it’s so universal. Yeah. And yeah, Goggins did a beautiful job and just a quick note on Can’t Hurt Me. I was expecting like someone recommended I read the book and I was like, I listen to it on Audible and I was totally expecting the drill sergeant.
00;19;44;25 – 00;20;03;05
Jon
Yeah, stay hard. The, you know, shirtless guy study hard. It’s like he’s going to carry the boat. Yeah. Who’s going to carry the boat? 3 a.m. rubbing razor blades on his face. Type of motivation. Like to have a motivational book. It’s not a motivational book. In fact, by the end of the first chapter, I was like, You have more than my attention.
00;20;03;23 – 00;20;09;06
Jon
Because just the first chapter had so much more depth and intrigue and intellect.
00;20;10;01 – 00;20;16;06
Aaron
Yeah, he did. Yeah. He says, this isn’t motivation. He hates motivation. His motivations fleeting.
00;20;16;12 – 00;20;16;22
Jon
Yeah.
00;20;16;28 – 00;20;19;07
Aaron
Make choices. He resolve.
00;20;19;21 – 00;20;32;03
Jon
He wants to drive an obsession. But yeah, the thing I just want to highlight is I was not going to read the book because I undersold it based on the YouTube clips. In the end, straight as like, okay, that’s his flavor, the marketing stuff.
00;20;32;03 – 00;20;32;18
Aaron
Yeah, sure.
00;20;32;18 – 00;20;49;09
Jon
Yeah, yeah. And I’m so grateful I listened to the recommendation do it because it was a raw insight for holding up of the mirror to look into your own soul and say, Where am I? Where am I going? You know, And there’s a lot of insight in it, so I highly recommend it.
00;20;49;17 – 00;21;08;10
Aaron
Yes, it goes I think it goes hand in glove as we as we’re talking about contracts, which with yourself. Yeah. That’s that’s a he’s really getting after. He’s like, you got to look hard and be like, do not lie to yourself about any. If you don’t like something that you’re seeing, there’s something you’re thinking or the path you’re on or where you think you might be going.
00;21;08;19 – 00;21;24;19
Aaron
Like, hate that. Yeah, get really mad at yourself and go like that. I’m not I don’t like this and I don’t like it enough that I want to do something about it. And and now if I, if I have lied to myself all these years or if I’ve shown I’m going to start something and I’m going to stop it, let’s start.
00;21;24;20 – 00;21;47;05
Aaron
Let’s stop that crazy cycle today and and do something I can repeat and get that weak version of myself a little bit stronger. And it doesn’t have to be the ideal, like, you know, the £175. GOGGINS That was a long journey for him, right? But but it started with, hey, I’m going to I’m going to change this routine and I’m going to add to this.
00;21;47;05 – 00;21;53;19
Aaron
And then what’s crazy is once you get to those levels, then you’re like, Give me more, give me more, What else can I do? What else can I do?
00;21;54;07 – 00;22;01;28
Jon
I love these so that because one of the things I was thinking about is there’s this weird paradox of like, the more that I’m doing, the more I feel like I’m capable of doing.
00;22;01;28 – 00;22;02;12
Aaron
Yes.
00;22;02;16 – 00;22;03;06
Jon
And I think.
00;22;03;06 – 00;22;03;25
Aaron
And you are.
00;22;04;17 – 00;22;23;13
Jon
Well, that’s true. Like the potential so much higher than I thought. But the other aspect, too, is I think going back to the art of learning to say no, it’s that I’m at the same time that I’m becoming more capable of accomplishing more, doing more. I’m also at the same time learning how to say no to more. Yeah.
00;22;23;17 – 00;22;54;08
Jon
So all these things I did not even realize were robbing me and distracting my mind and making me feel frazzled or spent. I’ve been like just shaving off or clunking off. And just now I’m realizing. I’m like, one of the reasons I’m able to say yes to so much. Like the way I’m able to invest so heavily into the Yes things is because of the thousand things I’ve cut off, either in my own mind as like mental thought loops or actions.
00;22;54;28 – 00;22;55;15
Jon
And that’s.
00;22;55;15 – 00;23;20;04
Aaron
Great. Yeah, I was. Yeah. Like, it’s sort of like you’re just doing higher quality no’s and higher quality yeses. Mm hmm. Because I would say even when you’re stuck, let’s say you’re in a cycle of things saying yes to things. And I’m not talking about just commitments, I’m talking about things that like are bad habits, are bad, bad routines, whatever in your life.
00;23;20;04 – 00;23;45;23
Aaron
And you you’re saying yes to those things and you wouldn’t even think to say yes to actually higher quality things because you’re too weak to do it. So you’re saying no to the good stuff? Yes to the bad stuff, then, as you’re saying, yes to the good things and no to the bad things. Now when you have opportunities that are actually high quality yeses, like, let’s say, for example, you wouldn’t you would have never joined a 5 a.m. jogging club.
00;23;46;09 – 00;24;02;14
Aaron
But but you’ve been on this journey to really attack your physical being and you really want to get that straight. It’s not about your body. It’s about like I to get my mind straight. I got to I got to get healthy again. And somebody says, Hey, let’s do this. You would have never I mean, fat, lazy. You would have said no to that.
00;24;02;24 – 00;24;22;26
Aaron
But but this person who’s on this new journey, wow, I would have never thought I could do that. But I’m going to say yes to this. And that sounds hard and difficult, but I if I did this, like as you say, it looks like there’s more. I’m capable. Maybe I can do this. It’s a small example, but I think you’ve probably seen a lot of doors open in the business world.
00;24;22;26 – 00;24;29;09
Aaron
Relationships. I know. Certainly we’ve seen that as we go on the journey with good yeses, good mission that we’re trying to accomplish.
00;24;29;26 – 00;24;49;29
Jon
Yeah, absolutely. And there’s kind of like this perversion where every answer is a yes or no. Right? So it’s just which 1 a.m. I going to give power to? Because if if we say yes to a guest on the podcast or saying no to someone else and just. Haller We’re scheduled through October. Kind of fun. Oh, yeah. But it’s the same thing.
00;24;49;29 – 00;25;07;02
Jon
If I say yes to waking up at 415, I’m saying no to sleeping in. Mm hmm. And so there’s kind of this, like, cool, uh, you’re shifting the volume from one to the other. And one of the things they’re thinking about is, like, what if you don’t know what to say? No to? What if you don’t know the things you should say yes to?
00;25;07;02 – 00;25;26;29
Jon
And as like, I think that’s something you can do if you don’t know what to say. Yes or no to say yes and then pay close attention because you will learn quickly, because you will begrudge it. Pay attention to your thought process. Pay attention to what you’re feeling and pay attention to why you’re why you’re responding that way.
00;25;27;01 – 00;25;49;27
Jon
Right? Because maybe you don’t mind the 6 hours of driving, but you hate being at the event, right? Or you just don’t like it. Maybe you love the event, but you hate the 6 hours of driving, whatever. Maybe you don’t like waking up early because it sucks for a few minutes, right? But then you love how you feel after whatever, as you say yes to the things that you want to experience, to learn what you ought to say no to you to start setting up the filtration process.
00;25;50;11 – 00;25;52;11
Jon
Your mind and body will tell you it will.
00;25;52;11 – 00;26;11;20
Aaron
And and I’ll say there’s in here’s the confusing part of that, though. The one there’s one side that says that will tell you this is not really a value and you’re doing this anyway, like kind of your heart speak. But then there’s also fear. Like what if you said, yes, something is actually good, Like you got to meet your gym partner at five.
00;26;11;20 – 00;26;34;25
Aaron
A You said you’re going to start this journey and they said they’re going to do it. For example, I’m just being total hypothetically because I was late this morning. But you you said you’re going to do that thing and and maybe when you’re early on the journey that causes great anxiety. Like I’m not good at the gym. Why did I say yes to this or I’m not I’m not qualified to do whatever.
00;26;35;29 – 00;26;55;06
Aaron
Don’t let that be a teller of what’s good or bad either. Like, sometimes that’s like, that’s, that’s like, that’s like the mental voice that the weak version of you that’s working against you quick and your resolves resolve Stay to it. But then, like you said, I think you also need to check your heart to if it’s if it’s telling, you know.
00;26;56;25 – 00;27;17;27
Jon
Well, yeah, that’s a great balance, right? By no means is discomfort in something that’s making you better a reason to not do it right. Like that’s the definitive one. If I was more thinking like this does not there’s not value added, I don’t believe that this is enhancing anything. You know, like for me, it’s largely with social events.
00;27;18;03 – 00;27;38;06
Jon
Mm hmm. Saying no to, like, group settings, things like that, that I’m not that I know I don’t have interest in being engaged in. And could there be value in, like, pushing my ability to interact with people on certain levels and try different things? Yes, but that’s not one of my priorities right now, and I don’t want to do that.
00;27;38;17 – 00;27;58;17
Jon
So I’m pushing in different areas. Right. My ability to be more relational and stuff. But it’s really just for taking the time like, no, I don’t want to spend 4 hours at an evening event with a bunch of people. I don’t know because everyone thinks that’s fun. I’d rather spend that 4 hours with my wife or my kids or focusing on building something or anything else.
00;27;58;17 – 00;28;01;20
Jon
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, right. He’s saying no.
00;28;01;20 – 00;28;07;14
Aaron
You mean I’d say exactly that way, but I’d rather be anywhere but there. Yeah. And love you, bro.
00;28;07;24 – 00;28;22;21
Jon
And I know when I go, it’s like, Oh, I do love that guy, but I hate being here. I don’t like this. Why am I here? And if I can’t answer that question, guess what? Now I know that next time I’ll say no. That’s right. Which is good.
00;28;22;21 – 00;28;26;22
Aaron
Yeah. I want to smile the next time I see you. So. No, I’m not going to do that.
00;28;27;10 – 00;28;30;08
Jon
Well, it’s crazy because it does change the relationships.
00;28;30;08 – 00;28;30;22
Aaron
It does?
00;28;30;28 – 00;28;31;17
Jon
Yeah, right.
00;28;32;10 – 00;28;33;21
Aaron
You find yourself avoiding.
00;28;33;21 – 00;28;34;07
Jon
People.
00;28;34;17 – 00;28;45;01
Aaron
Because of your own stupid yeses. Yep. Like, why don’t you just have. Why don’t you just be honest from the get go and then you don’t don’t sever that relationship.
00;28;45;24 – 00;29;09;15
Jon
Absolutely. And I’m just thinking, like, what’s the what are some of the easiest, like genuinely easiest, lowest barrier to entry ways that you could start the filtration process. And there is an assumption with it if it’s to work right. But let’s say you want to read more or learn something and you are having difficulty prioritizing time because I don’t believe that you don’t have to.
00;29;09;15 – 00;29;12;16
Aaron
This is going to go right into our third topic. I see you’re doing your tennis.
00;29;12;16 – 00;29;33;18
Jon
Up and teeing it up softball. What? So you want to read or you want to learn something and you’re struggling to prioritize the time because being too busy is an excuse. What is something that you could do to start testing that? MM In something that you’re already spending the time anyways, does anything come to mind?
00;29;34;05 – 00;29;46;13
Aaron
Gosh, there’s this, there’s this big vacuum of time that I have every day guaranteed at least twice a day, if not four or five, six times a day. Mm hmm. It’s called windshield time.
00;29;46;13 – 00;29;47;16
Jon
Windshield time?
00;29;47;16 – 00;30;11;17
Aaron
Yes, windshield time. Okay. What’s windshield time? Maybe you have never heard that before. Well, that’s when you’re staring at this big stupid monitor called your windshield. And it’s on coasts, right? You just see what you see. You’re probably you’re mindlessly looking at whatever marketing is popping up along the road of thinking about the guy who’s cutting you off and you’re not allowing your mind to be put to something.
00;30;11;17 – 00;30;25;29
Aaron
Maybe you’re flipping through the radio station. Maybe you have your your music going, I love music. You are listening to music, but sometimes it’s like, how much value does 30 minutes of music have for my drive?
00;30;26;00 – 00;30;48;04
Jon
What’s even more than that? Because that’s one drive. If you listen music for 30 minutes to an hour a day, that comes out to be an outrageous amount of time. The average American from when I heard this stat about four years ago, spends enough time driving each year that if they were to redeem that time, just you guys now, in case you missed it, windshield time is driving.
00;30;49;00 – 00;30;50;28
Aaron
Oh, did I articulate that? I was.
00;30;50;29 – 00;31;04;11
Jon
Pretty clear. All right, just in case. But if you spend that time learning something, you would have the equivalent hours put in as, like earn completing a course in college.
00;31;04;24 – 00;31;19;08
Aaron
Right. Can I be can I be kind of mean? Yeah. For a second. So. So many people say I’m not a reader. Yeah. What would you say to that person? And if you’re that person, just brace for impact. Go. Okay.
00;31;19;19 – 00;31;25;27
Jon
Yeah. If you’re not a read, if you’re not anything, I’d say, well, you’ve chosen that. That’s all I’d say.
00;31;27;10 – 00;31;39;15
Aaron
That is a choice. I’m not a reader. Yeah, As if it’s like some talent that’s, you know, like a native. You you. You know, I wasn’t born a reader. You know, I wasn’t born a walker either, you know, like.
00;31;40;08 – 00;31;41;03
Jon
And these.
00;31;41;03 – 00;31;48;21
Aaron
Things, these things have got to be learned. Work. Having a low barrier eventually here with the windshield time Like you have it already. Yeah.
00;31;49;01 – 00;31;52;10
Jon
Just the second you ask that, it’s just like I’m not a morning person.
00;31;52;16 – 00;31;53;07
Aaron
Yeah, exactly.
00;31;53;15 – 00;32;09;21
Jon
I’m not athletic. Oh, I’m not. Whatever. Whatever that is, it’s. Well, who’s the person who said whether you, whether you say I can or I can’t. You’re right. Ford. Ford. Yep. Yeah. So he nailed it. Whatever you say. You’re not. You won’t be like that, right? Yeah. You want to two, you’re not. But that’s a choice. Yeah, it’s on you.
00;32;10;03 – 00;32;29;11
Aaron
Yeah, exactly. I think that’s what I’m saying. Maybe you’re not a reader and you want to be. That’s what I’m talking to. If you’re not a reader and you’re just going to own, that’s your identity. Just shut off the podcast right now. But yeah, but I will say for those of you who are trying to learn is because here’s the crazy thing about facts and information, John.
00;32;29;26 – 00;32;35;18
Aaron
They’re contained in these things we’ve had for a long time. They’re called books. They’re write their souls.
00;32;35;18 – 00;33;01;24
Jon
Into other people’s experience. Yeah. Windows and, and it’s funny because the once again it’s not been clear redeem your freaking windshield time by putting on an audible book You know recording or podcast Yes or YouTube video Flip that screen down so you don’t wreck yourself right. But learn something doing that drive and even to start, like, let’s see, you drive three, four, two times a day, whatever it is, probably more than once because you have to get home even.
00;33;01;24 – 00;33;19;03
Jon
Just start with one of those lengths. I’m going to listen to a podcast or book instead of music, right. And keep that consistently for a while and then watch it start to grow. My that’s exactly how I started doing that. And over the course of a couple of months, I found that I even I found that I wanted to.
00;33;19;12 – 00;33;27;18
Jon
I love it. I went towards that. I gravitated towards it more than the music because I was like, I want to keep learning that or I want to keep doing it. And that works when you pick things you’re interested in.
00;33;27;29 – 00;33;38;08
Aaron
Oh, right, right. And yeah, I wouldn’t just like, do you know some thick novel that’s random. It should be something interesting to you. I mean. Correct. Let’s not let’s make it consistent.
00;33;38;08 – 00;33;53;25
Jon
And I’ll still listen to music in the car every once a month, but it’s probably one set of every couple of hundred drives, genuinely, because I listen to music when we train and other times of the day, it’s like, why would I just listen to music right now? And sometimes I don’t listen to anything. I just meditate, I think, on something.
00;33;54;08 – 00;34;14;08
Jon
But it’s definitely an easy way to redeem your time. And going back to your question of what if I’m not a reader, whatever, I just can’t help but remember, I think it might have been the Dalai Lama in the meme depicts like some monk type of person and they’re asking like, what is one of the keys to happiness?
00;34;14;25 – 00;34;25;08
Jon
And he’s like, Don’t argue with idiots. You know, like, don’t argue with imbeciles. Yeah. And the person’s like, Well, that’s a dumb key to happiness. And the monk, just because you’re right.
00;34;28;21 – 00;34;30;02
Aaron
Over and over.
00;34;31;15 – 00;34;39;05
Jon
It’s such a beautiful display of it. So I love it if someone tells me I’m not a reader, I’m not bitter, I’m not whatever. I’m just like, You’re right.
00;34;39;07 – 00;35;12;10
Aaron
Yeah, Well, John, I mean, this is like, to me, if you read just about every dystopian novel has some form of limiting reading in it. Like, I think I think we talk about a lot of things that limit freedom in America especially. We’re obsessed with freedom. We love freedom. It’s what makes our country so great. But one of the things that if you want to if you want to lack freedom in your life, don’t read because what you’ll you’ll be a prisoner of whatever talking head is saying whatever to you.
00;35;13;17 – 00;35;19;18
Aaron
And I don’t need to call out any media outlets. This is if that’s where you get all your information. You’re not reading books if you’re not tempered.
00;35;19;20 – 00;35;32;06
Jon
Yeah. If you get all of your information from any one source, you’re in trouble. Right? Right. And and more so if you’re not critically thinking and if you’re not evaluating Wayne, if you’re just accepting things carte blanche from anything or anyone.
00;35;32;08 – 00;35;32;16
Aaron
Yeah.
00;35;32;22 – 00;35;56;01
Jon
You’re in trouble. And it’s interesting because the freedom to read and the freedom to speech balm paramount. The first two things that you see is the like you said, and when things start to go south throughout history and countries, these books get burned up and then your get restricted on what you can say and try to have this new store.
00;35;56;01 – 00;36;26;22
Jon
There’s this cool statue of Thomas Jefferson outside of it. And on here he’s working on the Constitution and there’s some quotes attributed to him on it as well. And I just thought it was relevant for some of the thought with what you just said on reading. But like, if you lose the freedom and this is a least because I never do direct quotes, because I can’t remember them directly and I don’t commit them to memory, but if you lose the freedom to speech, then mute and blind will be led to the slaughter like lambs or something like that.
00;36;27;15 – 00;36;36;18
Jon
And it’s like if you lose the power of language, you lose the power of critical thought. Yeah. And if you lose the power of critical thought, you’re at the mercy of those who are thinking.
00;36;36;28 – 00;36;59;16
Aaron
Oh, brilliant. Yeah. If you read what’s crazy, like if you do a study into our Constitution or a declaration of Independence, that’s it. That’s actually a compilation of great works of literature that these men have read and understood and have discussed. And so why would we, having full access to all this information today, we have more information than ever before in history.
00;36;59;24 – 00;37;16;04
Aaron
Why would we discount that? Yeah, you know, back to that windshield time like what’s a chapter like if it’s a business book, they’re typically shorter. So maybe it’s 20, 30 minutes for a chapter like boom, you did a chapter of a book? Yep. Just by doing one. If it’s Petersen, it’s like an hour. And for him, it’s a chapter.
00;37;16;15 – 00;37;37;18
Aaron
But but whatever it is, you’re knocking it out little by little. And before you know it, in a week, you just consumed a book. Yes. That’s a pretty cool thing. Yes. And you get to keep all that knowledge. You get to apply it and if you have good friends, you guys are sharing each other with each other. We do this often like, Hey, have you read this?
00;37;37;18 – 00;37;44;20
Aaron
Have you read this? No, no. What do you think about this? Those are great conversations. You get smarter. Yeah, You make better decisions, higher quality decisions.
00;37;45;00 – 00;38;09;17
Jon
100%. And I think that’s a good point to look at what we discussed today and just what those key takeaways are. Again, in case you missed it or zoned out or were just being silly, but because they all ran right into each other into a functional output of like, how can I apply today? Because don’t ever just listen to something like remember Wilberforce said, Now that you’ve seen, you can never say you didn’t know, right?
00;38;09;29 – 00;38;28;23
Jon
So it’s like once you’ve realized that there is a way to redeem or put something into action. And if you see value in that, you can never unknow that. You can only ignore it and blind yourself to it, right? So like we started with the Art of No, and that just went smack dab into how you say yes and no to will either strengthen or weaken your character and your resolve.
00;38;28;23 – 00;38;47;26
Jon
Yep. And we use the analogy of transactions with yourself as if you’re a bank account. And then the actual way that you can apply that if you don’t know where to start on how can I start redeeming time and learning what to say yes or no to redeeming windshield time by investing in something you want to learn and have not yet prioritized.
00;38;48;18 – 00;38;51;13
Jon
So I think that puts some of the bone in. What do you think?
00;38;51;25 – 00;38;56;07
Aaron
I think it’s excellent. Yeah. Thanks, guys.
