Episode 6 of The Grit Theory. 

What do you do when your dying wife tells you to leave her to go and live your life?

Today we had the immense pleasure of sitting down with Chet Bailey to discuss his 25 year journey with his late wife Debi. Only 1 year into marriage Debi was diagnosed with a fatal disease that slowly stripped away the lives they had hoped for. But two indomitable spirits bound by love, and an undying commitment to one another transform this tragic story into one filled with encouragement and hope. 

In honor of Debi who lived by the motto “Always Hope, Never Give Up, Live Life.”

Highlights: 

• Simple truth: life is hard.
• Work to focus on what matters.
• Do not try to do it alone.
• Push into the hard things .
• Be honest with yourself.
• When in despair, build.
• Choose to live.
• Your struggles are your own.
• Helping someone in crisis.

Chet continues to love and honor the memory of Debi as he embraces her motto to “Live Life”. He is founding an outreach program in Brazil to support the climb from poverty through training entrepreneurship and computer skills. This effort is a work in progress, but if you would like to learn more go to chetbailey.com

Chet has named the program “Debi’s Hope”.

Did you find value in today’s conversation? SHARE IT! 

Also, check out Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be waymakers HERE.

Do you want to learn more? Check out:

The Book: Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be WayMakers.

The Podcast: “Be Relentless Podcast”

The Fuel: Sisu Stamina, Performance Evolved

Linktree: Here.

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Episode Transcript

00;00;00;00 – 00;00;10;02

Speaker 1

Good morning. Welcome to another episode of The Grit Theory I. I’m Aaron Robinson. I’m here with John Mayo. Hello. And our guest today, Chet Daly. Welcome.

00;00;10;23 – 00;00;11;10

Speaker 2

Thank you.

00;00;11;17 – 00;00;30;27

Speaker 1

Chet. Barely. And I have been friends for I can’t remember how many years it’s got to be five plus years. And Chet has as a story of grit that I have been impressed with ever since I’ve met him because I knew him before, kind of when he was on the journey. And as he went through more difficult parts of the journey.

00;00;31;05 – 00;01;07;01

Speaker 1

So we’ve asked him to come in today and get gritty about something that may. I think I think there may be some opinions on this one today as far as what somebody would do when they hear your story, what they what the personal decisions they they would make. But before we get into all that, Chet, we’re going to we’re going to we will have a great podcast today just talking about that story, getting a grip as we do mining those nuggets as we do, and then eventually we’ll land that plane and hopefully we’ll just have this incredible moment of clarity about it.

00;01;07;01 – 00;01;07;23

Speaker 1

Always.

00;01;07;23 – 00;01;10;24

Speaker 2

And we’ll go on and the children as that’s the goal.

00;01;11;08 – 00;01;13;17

Speaker 1

I know John’s looking at me suspiciously.

00;01;14;02 – 00;01;22;13

Speaker 2

No. Yeah, I think I’m good. You know, it’s a 300 album word. Yeah. Then Erin, we’ll probably hand it to you. And so my pretty package.

00;01;22;28 – 00;01;23;27

Speaker 1

Yeah. And John.

00;01;23;27 – 00;01;24;20

Speaker 2

We’re of course, we’re.

00;01;25;24 – 00;01;28;16

Speaker 1

We’re here in this studio under interesting.

00;01;28;16 – 00;01;47;18

Speaker 2

Circumstances like what’s wrong with us today? So it is pretty fun. It’s Wednesday morning. I’m recording this and it’s dark out. Well, now it’s starting to be light and snow’s flying in. Both you gentlemen still made it. So thank you. First testimony today. So that’s fun. Yeah. I had to give her a hard time about the directions he gave me.

00;01;47;19 – 00;01;54;27

Speaker 2

So this house is all the trees around it, but it’s completely dark.

00;01;54;27 – 00;01;57;05

Speaker 1

It was. Is completely dark. Sorry about that.

00;01;57;22 – 00;01;59;19

Speaker 2

And the snow’s blowing two sets like.

00;02;02;12 – 00;02;17;20

Speaker 1

I always, always love coming to the ranch. You like to call it out here? Is this like it’s. This is. Come to this location. There’ll be a gate. A man will walk out in the dark of night, an open said gate. You’ll drive in and there will be an experience on the other side of the road.

00;02;17;20 – 00;02;23;00

Speaker 2

After the gate closes.

00;02;23;00 – 00;02;29;04

Speaker 1

We’re just so glad you could be here today. Said, How are you doing? Are you awake with this? And we asked you to come in early today.

00;02;29;18 – 00;02;44;20

Speaker 2

Thank you. Yes, it’s interesting to see to see this time from this side. Yes, usually I’m from the other side. It’s usually when I’ve seen it, I’m going to bed and getting out of bed.

00;02;44;22 – 00;02;48;14

Speaker 1

That’s right. Yeah. Most people do their best work at 6 p.m..

00;02;48;20 – 00;02;52;02

Speaker 2

Six, six here. Yeah.

00;02;52;05 – 00;02;53;08

Speaker 1

So how’s John doing today?

00;02;53;20 – 00;02;54;08

Speaker 2

Doing well.

00;02;54;12 – 00;02;58;10

Speaker 1

Yeah. I just got on the gym ourselves. So it’s not a quick smoker.

00;02;58;10 – 00;03;20;08

Speaker 2

Yeah. Quit smoking real fast and try to get some sweat before the snow. That way we can make sure we’re waiting for you. And now we’re here. And I know I’m feeling pretty good. So from what I understand, the surgery today, I think that regardless of if people would make the same decisions you did, it’s an encouragement and testimony like it’s an encouragement to it’s a testament to staying the course.

00;03;20;27 – 00;03;38;22

Speaker 2

Right. And not blowing with the wind left and right, left to right and being fickle and things like that. So I’m really excited to jump in, frankly, and get to hear more about this and and learn about it. So, yeah, thanks for coming and I’m excited. Jump in. Thanks for having me.

00;03;38;22 – 00;04;16;00

Speaker 1

So chat like any friend, I’m probably going to get some of the facts wrong trying to tell your story. That’s why you’re here to fact check me with your story. Before, as I said to you, just a little backdrop and again, fact check me here. But when I met Chad over many years ago, married to a wonderful man named Debbie and Chet has always had a softness and a kindness about him, which intrigues me, like when somebody seems to be authentic and whether whether authentic, being a crazy person or just a humble or like a softer person.

00;04;16;10 – 00;04;39;06

Speaker 1

I’ve just always said, you’re the kind of person like, I’m not I don’t feel like intimidated around you. You have a sense, like you could tell you genuinely want to be in front of the person in front of us. But when I look into your eyes and talk to you, it seems like that’s been trained, like you’ve been even kind of living that for a long time, it’s really who you are.

00;04;39;09 – 00;05;00;19

Speaker 1

It’s not something you’re just acting like, and then you start telling your story. And so what the listeners may or may or may not know is with the news that Debbie had a disability which caused her really to heavily dependent, you you’ve been married at this time for many years, so you go ahead.

00;05;01;05 – 00;05;39;10

Speaker 2

Yeah. So yeah he had had a severe disease called a mitochondrial myopathy that caused severe muscle weakness, progressive muscle weakness, as well as, you know, problems neurologically with severe headaches and and strokes and things like that. So we went to you know, he was ill for over 20 years. And so we went through that journey for a lot longer than the doctors expected us to.

00;05;39;19 – 00;05;40;25

Speaker 1

When we when we met.

00;05;40;25 – 00;05;52;09

Speaker 2

How many years have you been married? So so yeah, we probably been married right about 17 years at that time.

00;05;52;16 – 00;05;56;27

Speaker 1

So you and but when you married Debbie, she did not have this.

00;05;57;13 – 00;06;23;04

Speaker 2

She says she had it right. She did not have this. She had actually, when we first started dating, she told me that she had leukemia when she was a child. And so to expect there to be some you know, some some issues. And in that they had told her at that time not to expect to to survive to be 30 kids because of all that she had gone through.

00;06;23;23 – 00;06;26;11

Speaker 1

So you knew this kid already married.

00;06;26;25 – 00;06;56;16

Speaker 2

Right? Wow. Well, you know, we were we had a discussion. You know, she’s like, you know, I don’t know what’s going to happen. There’s a very good chance that you have the the leukemia will come back or brain tumors and things like that. You know, I just understand she was she had leukemia back in the late seventies when they were just starting to be able to to do some amount of the treatment for it.

00;06;56;17 – 00;07;04;00

Speaker 2

So it’s just nothing like if you have it today. And so I not as much.

00;07;04;00 – 00;07;23;15

Speaker 1

Support back then. Right. Okay. And just to for you because why did you decide to I mean that’s a big deal like you’re getting is sort of, you know, the crass was a damaged goods right. Like that’s not a deal situation to go into in a marriage. But you you decided to do so anyway.

00;07;23;15 – 00;07;46;24

Speaker 2

It was you know, as we had said, with all your heart disease runs in my family, I got my blood pressure already in high school. I had the pressure and I’m like, I don’t know what’s going to happen to me either. So we all have whatever amount of time God gives us and we’ll just do with it, you know, help her, whatever.

00;07;46;24 – 00;07;49;20

Speaker 2

We have this adventure together, right? That’s it.

00;07;49;25 – 00;07;57;16

Speaker 1

You put yourself in the same kind of situations, like I. That’s a great this. It’s good. Simply put. Yeah.

00;07;58;17 – 00;08;06;01

Speaker 2

We none of us know what we’re going to have. Sarah Yeah. So he says we take it one day at a time.

00;08;06;14 – 00;08;10;19

Speaker 1

The statistics on death are pretty astronomical.

00;08;11;05 – 00;08;33;12

Speaker 2

What? It was sure that everybody did something. We all die. So here you are. You get married, you know that there’s history. You’re like love. You want to be with you. But eventually together. Right. And see you guys continue being married. And then obviously, I think this just evokes a while after married. So it’s the hypothetical going in.

00;08;34;11 – 00;09;01;05

Speaker 2

There’s hypothetical concerns that could realize themselves. And then life happened. They did realize themselves, which is where I think you were in some context continuing your story. Is that fair? Correct. Yeah. So, yeah. And then after she we were married about a year. We dated a couple of years and then we got married and we were married about a year.

00;09;02;00 – 00;09;30;12

Speaker 2

And when she went into the hospital for the first time and really after that, you know, she just was not able to, you know, she had to drop out of the school degree. She couldn’t do that anymore. And and things just really started going downhill at that point.

00;09;30;12 – 00;09;40;00

Speaker 1

And where is your head in all that? I mean, because, you know, talking to you, you guys had an active lifestyle.

00;09;40;00 – 00;10;10;06

Speaker 2

And prior to that, you know, we would go and play golf very regularly. She loved golf. Tennis. Neither of us were extremely athletic, but we we still got out and we had confidence and, you know, it was this progression that we saw a lot of things which came within a year or so. She could no longer take off anymore.

00;10;11;25 – 00;10;50;06

Speaker 2

You know, we did we were able to do hikes for a little while, but it’s just, you know, slowly losing different things with, you know, being able to drive the you know, generally being in a wheelchair, all those things. And and and yeah, it’s a tough it’s it’s really tough watching someone you love going through that. And then the other thing that I always remember is as tough as it was for me, she was actually I mean, she was the one that was actually losing those things, right?

00;10;50;09 – 00;10;58;06

Speaker 2

So and so if she had the strength to be able to do that, there’s no reason I couldn’t.

00;10;59;02 – 00;11;06;27

Speaker 1

Wow. So you didn’t think of it. Your mindset was something’s been taken from me. Your mindset was this has been taken from her.

00;11;07;01 – 00;11;10;11

Speaker 2

Right. And you had compassion for that situation. Right?

00;11;10;26 – 00;11;14;26

Speaker 1

So little different than, I think, the normal knee jerk reaction. Well, the guy.

00;11;15;15 – 00;11;40;19

Speaker 2

Yeah, I, I don’t agree with that. I think that is just different from the reaction of a person, first of all. But what I love about it is since this started the discovering the degradation of capability started a year into being married. Is that right? Okay. So it’s not like you’ve been married 15 years. There’s this huge broad foundation you guys made.

00;11;40;19 – 00;12;14;06

Speaker 2

The commitment a year in your lifestyle is dramatically changing, right? And then it comes to what we’re starting to get into your mindset on what’s going on, because the story is hard and tragic now, but like your experience with it, we just got the first glimpse, I think, and that’s where you said, Yeah. One of the things I would remind myself, as I imagine in a time of frustration maybe, or when you were discouraged, is if this is hard for me to have our life shift and to watch my wife go through this, she’s the one living it, right?

00;12;14;10 – 00;12;50;28

Speaker 2

So what do I have to complain about? A conservatorship, working love, right. When did you did that come naturally to you or did you have to develop that over the years of caring for and walking through this with her? I mean, it definitely was a progression in my view is, well, I really the first year of our marriage, I released study of what is love and really meditated on that.

00;12;50;28 – 00;13;42;26

Speaker 2

And that kind of carried a basis of if I hadn’t done that, I don’t know what I would have been able to what that. But it was still a very difficult journey. Even 1015 years down the road is still continuously going back to, you know, what is love and how to find that out. And what we’re going through right now at this point in the end, yeah, if we have gone through what we went through 15 years later is what we went through on day one, I kind of made it happen for me.

00;13;42;26 – 00;14;04;22

Speaker 1

I had it. And in this way, as talk about this sort of reactionary kind of standpoint, you know, because like know John, like the extreme example of this that I think everyone would agree this is like crazy. But the story was told to me because my wife and I did premarital counseling and that’s and we were coach. She said, what about this?

00;14;04;22 – 00;14;21;27

Speaker 1

This is why didn’t you guys get married? And we listed all these things and it was amazing how self-assured this was. You know, everything was like all these things the person does for me, you know, she makes me happy and she’s pretty. I think, you know, I like being around her, those kind of things. It’s very pretty. Me centric.

00;14;21;27 – 00;14;51;13

Speaker 1

Right? Right. And he tells the stories. Okay, here’s a story. This is this to this couple. They they they date when they in their dating. They were very active here. In fact, they were like world class skiers skiing all the time as much as they could until and then they got married under this pretense. And then eventually there was a day when she got hurt and she got paralyzed from the hips down, ending her skiing career.

00;14;52;07 – 00;15;15;21

Speaker 1

And the very next move for the husband was he packed up all her ski gear and all her stuff and drove her to her dad’s house and dropped her off and said, I am I no longer have any use for her. That was it. I heard this and was like, That’s that’s horrible. And then then he challenged me and said, What if something is taken from your relationship that you really think is a primary inside the relationship?

00;15;15;21 – 00;15;23;25

Speaker 1

Would you do the same thing? It really challenged love like, what is love? And then you can speak to that. What is love?

00;15;24;10 – 00;16;01;20

Speaker 2

I mean, you know, first of all, you know, I you know, I think anyone preparing to marry really needs to go through those tough discussions of what really is important to me and how, you know, and why am I really, you know, committing to this lifelong relationship and that love. You know, it’s desiring the best for someone else, you know, And that’s what that’s where I come from.

00;16;02;07 – 00;16;35;13

Speaker 2

And the belief of love is is just trying to do what I can do to help someone else out. And and that’s what we both went into marriage with. That same attitude of this is you know, we’re we’re supporting each other, you know, And there is with all her disabilities, she still did support me in a lot of ways, too.

00;16;36;00 – 00;17;19;10

Speaker 2

So, I mean, it was not just one way of giving everything’s not getting anything, but it’s a you know, again, it’s it’s it’s it’s a commitment. It’s in you know, it’s not about it shouldn’t be about what am I going to get out of this idea of. So yeah, it’s, yeah, it’s very important to have those types of discussions and and really think about and, and then also it was a story of, you know, they used to really piss me off when I hear something like that.

00;17;19;10 – 00;17;50;27

Speaker 2

Is that one walk away and I’m that you know, quite a few people often women that sometimes they listen to that, you know, kind of stick in their step them and often with some kids do and it was very tough to see that but I also saw the flipside of that. We had one of our interviewing groups. I had a young girl, she’s 16.

00;17;51;16 – 00;18;35;17

Speaker 2

She’s supposed to be living, you know, preparing for college and doing high school stuff from and all that and dating. But she was caring for her mom and her dad and and it was her her mom had a very severe form of multiple sclerosis. And she know in her dad her dad actually was an alcoholic. And and it was that he had you know, she said that she wished that when her mom was getting sick that he would not have stuck around because he just made it worse.

00;18;36;13 – 00;19;08;14

Speaker 2

That, you know, it wasn’t know. And so, you know, that kind of show me that there are there are times when someone does have to be honest with themselves, can I do this? And and it’s important to if you need to be honest with yourself and say, I cannot do this on my own and seek out now and and, you know, and likewise, if someone you know is going through something, you know, see what you can do to help them out.

00;19;10;24 – 00;19;30;26

Speaker 2

But it is important to be honest with what is my you know, what can I actually handle? And sometimes it is a tough decision to say I am not going to be able to handle this. And, you know, it’s going to be best for me to walk away. Said, Do you mind? It’s real quick. There’s three bombshells in the last few minutes for you.

00;19;30;27 – 00;19;47;09

Speaker 2

Huge mountains that I just want to highlight, because that was there’s a lot. So first, your definition of love, I think is a mature definition of love. It’s not what we see in pop culture. You know, in social media. That’s not it.

00;19;48;06 – 00;19;49;29

Speaker 1

I don’t think I’ve seen that movie. Yeah.

00;19;50;13 – 00;20;17;25

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, yeah. On the joke. Yes, absolutely right. Love defined as wanting and working for the best for the person you love, right? It reminded me when I was listening to you said, like, if you want a relationship to work, it doesn’t take 50 50% effort on each side. Right? It takes 110% effort from each person to make that relationship work.

00;20;18;10 – 00;20;44;27

Speaker 2

Why? Because it takes that desire for the best of the person that you love. And then for the relationship that you’re building to do. So that was really cool and just wanted to pin that. And then the second thing was when you shared your frustration and you see people noncommittal, we leave a hard circumstance because it’s harder because of something that definitely seems like you especially have a right to that anger.

00;20;45;04 – 00;21;11;26

Speaker 2

And I think it’s okay to call out and challenge people on leaving their commitments. Absolutely. But what I really appreciate is not just the courage to say, yeah, it’s wrong to leave your commitments. Right. But hey, it’s not just black and white, right? You kind of brought it to this full circle. Default value is probably baseline wrong in discussing that you left your period.

00;21;11;26 – 00;21;12;13

Speaker 2

But then.

00;21;13;03 – 00;21;14;20

Speaker 1

I saw this like the.

00;21;14;20 – 00;21;37;07

Speaker 2

Flash of energy kind of leave your eyes and then you kind of relax sitting there for a second. And as you of speaking, you walked into that. You need to be honest with yourself because this is very hard and it will inspire passion, but you can make it worse if you stay in the situation, but start becoming more selfish in the situation or if you don’t realize what you can or can’t handle.

00;21;37;14 – 00;21;58;14

Speaker 2

So why equip yourself with people to strengthen you and to be honest with yourself? Because looking at that to the young woman who is caring for her mother and the father is drunk, he stuck around. But he did. He his body was there. But did he actually commit or did he start pursuing a self escape into the final grade point?

00;21;58;17 – 00;22;12;18

Speaker 2

You know, and that’s where I just love and really wanted to put that spotlight of what you’re talking about. Here is what sounds it painfully earned temperance and self assessment of what can you do, what can you do, and how is it going to play? Right.

00;22;12;27 – 00;22;39;10

Speaker 1

The difficulty is, is it absolutely going to happen, Right? That’s like to to try to have a disdain for difficulty is a lesson in madness. You know, it’s it’s going to happen. You have the difficult the differences is how we how we respond to difficulty. It’s like this is your difficult story. And I also I also want to note to that I love that we’re talking about like a relational thing because we talk about grit.

00;22;39;18 – 00;22;58;28

Speaker 1

It’s so often this sort of like over masculinity, it very it’s all about like a strength thing. You’re just soldiering on, you’re getting through. Sometimes it’s just like, like emotional struggle. Like this is really hard or, or even a selfish internal struggle that I’m dealing.

00;22;58;28 – 00;22;59;23

Speaker 2

With, right?

00;22;59;28 – 00;23;12;14

Speaker 1

Or, or even, you know, from the love standpoint, I don’t feel like I’m enough to even handle this situation or carry it like I want to. Don’t even know how to do it. And you’re trying to find a.

00;23;12;14 – 00;24;10;02

Speaker 2

Way to do it right. And and, and I, I don’t want to sound like I did not go through those struggles either, because there were times I was at the end of my rope, God, I just cannot do this. And and, you know, I just want to start over. I want to walk away, start over and and there are, you know, you know, and and when I eventually found out and that is I need to start trying to do it all on my own and realize that there there is support out there to to help and to allow people to help sometimes I would you know how to get into you know, trying to do

00;24;10;02 – 00;24;35;16

Speaker 2

it all on my own and and you know so would say well this I mean all of the ingredients in which I really you know, a lot of times that does come off as very you know, let me know if you’re you know, if you have anything. But I don’t know. I don’t know to think too much. Yeah.

00;24;35;16 – 00;24;35;23

Speaker 2

Yeah.

00;24;36;06 – 00;24;49;15

Speaker 1

So like some of the well-meaning friends, we all have that right? Yeah. Just call me Amy. Amy. It’s like I rarely call my friends when I have a blue. I shouldn’t be around this.

00;24;49;17 – 00;25;19;20

Speaker 2

And, you know, from that side, it’s. It’s all there to to them. If you when you see something, say, this is what I can do to help you out with that instead of just saying you’re so wide open, we don’t mean you know, we really do. You mean you know, honestly, call me when you need something, but when you’re in the middle of it, you’re just pushing through and you don’t even stop to think, Oh, yeah, someone, Erin, could help me out with this.

00;25;20;13 – 00;25;22;05

Speaker 2

But, you know, Aaron is.

00;25;23;26 – 00;25;24;15

Speaker 1

Checking in.

00;25;24;16 – 00;25;32;20

Speaker 2

Checking in. I can say, you know, okay, you’ve got a pile of dishes there. And I’m like, Come over and help you clean those, you know?

00;25;33;06 – 00;25;40;09

Speaker 1

But I’m not a psychologist. I can’t help you write down the dishes. Did you come in the around?

00;25;40;17 – 00;26;25;00

Speaker 2

It’s so interesting because typically it’s just presence. Yeah. And like removing some source, some stressor. Yeah, right. So it’s like the dishes. We were laughing, but I imagine those actually like a personal memory to remember at times of the dishes. But it’s also that we also it’s easy to see all the horrible, difficult things that someone’s going through and forget about the fact that there are still, you know, small things that can still help out that you may not seem like, you know, anything important, but it’s still a gift helping somewhere, right?

00;26;25;03 – 00;26;37;12

Speaker 2

So so yeah, you can’t you can’t fix the fact that she’s not able to walk. You can’t fix that. But you can at least help out and you what she’s not able to do anymore more and.

00;26;37;18 – 00;26;56;20

Speaker 1

Take you out to lunch or you know and that’s I think that’s the civil was let’s do the dishes the moniker but like like if you got if you see somebody in your life that needs all the help and support, like just look for something, it could be totally menial but in the moment and we’ve all received it at some point in our life, I think it’s like voice.

00;26;56;24 – 00;26;58;19

Speaker 1

That person didn’t know how much that.

00;26;58;24 – 00;27;18;21

Speaker 2

To make a really simple one is like if you have a child or something, you immediately get sick. At the beginning, people always offer big meals like we can, perhaps some meals and you can bring up when you’re going through these long struggles, things like that. I imagine would still be extremely appreciated. I mean, the journey continues, right?

00;27;18;21 – 00;27;48;22

Speaker 2

Maybe the frequency is less sustainable, but that’s always an easy thing. And I think everyone and everyone I’ve met needs to eat and appreciates food. In some ways, that’s okay. Do you mind if I had a question? Because you’re you’re talking about. It’s not all that right. You know, obviously we’ve been focusing on the hard things, right. And and we’ve come to this point of like you will very likely fail atrociously if you’re not honest with yourself.

00;27;48;22 – 00;28;20;21

Speaker 2

And if you don’t get help and you’re talking about how you’ve come here to I mean, comes I say maybe you could juxtapose that for a minute with when you’re going through the shit. Your life is continuously changing before your eyes right? And your dreams or hopes maybe of how starting or adjusting with the new reality and you’re learning all these hard lessons as you’re being be to according to the end of yourself and find out what moment, what sparked joy?

00;28;20;21 – 00;29;10;01

Speaker 2

Or was there anything that brought joy in your relationship with your wife? Were there positive things still going on, or was it all just like gritting your teeth, gritting your teeth and going, Oh, yeah, I mean, there was definitely some, you know, times of choice, you know? I mean, we one of the amazing things about her story is, you know, it was really close to, you know, 15 years into this struggle that she had been bedridden for about six months.

00;29;10;01 – 00;29;41;11

Speaker 2

We were getting really wiped out financially. And and I had started to have to work from home full time to care for her while she was bedridden. And and that has been a lot of stress on the on the job. My my immediate manager was very good about giving me the freedom to work from home. But most people in the company and those that our management did not agree with that.

00;29;42;00 – 00;30;03;13

Speaker 2

So it was a tough one. And so so she said, well, what can I do to help you guys? You know, one thing is I don’t know how much longer this job is going to last, you know, especially if you keep getting sicker, which you’re going to there’s going to be a point where where I’m not going to be able to do my job.

00;30;03;13 – 00;30;39;25

Speaker 2

And so we really need to start thinking about what’s our own back plan. And, you know, and at that point, she had been you know, she was crafting a she didn’t crocheted for her insulation, baby blankets and booties and days to hospitals. And and she was involved in two groups that were doing that. And she said, you know, why don’t we look at starting a business where, you know, we were looking at how can we save money on the supplies and the rest of it.

00;30;39;25 – 00;31;01;17

Speaker 2

We said, well, you know, we can get this stuff wholesale, we can sell it, and then we also reduce our costs. And so we said, let’s see, you know, And so we actually started a business together and she ran that for a bit for several years. And wow, you know.

00;31;01;29 – 00;31;02;27

Speaker 1

That’s a tough lady.

00;31;03;10 – 00;31;26;23

Speaker 2

That’s awesome. But then that gave her something also to look to besides her illness and the things it shouldn’t do. She found things that she could still do. And, you know, instead of focusing on the things that she was losing, focus on the things that she could do still and find ways of doing it had a great attitude.

00;31;26;23 – 00;31;59;24

Speaker 2

But yeah, I mean, that’s one of the things that to I just you know, and I remember sitting down with some of our suppliers and talking and we met together with one of our suppliers and they said and they were amazed at how well we work together in this business. And, you know, and then she said that she could really see this is the sparkle in my eye when you’re talking about, you know, it.

00;32;00;19 – 00;32;08;07

Speaker 2

So, yeah, I mean, even though we had all this difficulty, we also did things together and support each other.

00;32;08;07 – 00;32;19;05

Speaker 1

And that was visit sitting on a mentioned illness. The first the primary was how you’re language right now when you’re talking about this, when you’re talking to her.

00;32;19;20 – 00;32;21;14

Speaker 2

What are we going to do about this together?

00;32;22;01 – 00;32;41;02

Speaker 1

Because it was a is a team thing, right? Like it wasn’t just like you going, oh, this has happened to me. I have to fix this, right? Like, sometimes we can all do this. Is I okay, I’m going to fix this. I do this all the time. My wife, my wife will tell you, and it doesn’t normally end well.

00;32;41;02 – 00;32;46;02

Speaker 1

You know, I’m just like, I got to fight. And which is a very powerful position. I understand.

00;32;46;02 – 00;32;46;28

Speaker 2

I know.

00;32;46;28 – 00;33;02;00

Speaker 1

You just sort of like to me it was. You can see it now. You you got down on your knee and left there. Now, I just said A, B, c, I don’t know how this is going to go actually figure out how to do this together. And she. And she solved it with you, right?

00;33;02;11 – 00;33;23;08

Speaker 2

Well, even better than that. Yeah. She deserves your stress. If I heard you correctly. Oh, yeah. And she called it out. She’s okay. What can we do to fix this? Because I can see it’s probably tearing up and I want to help. Right and right in that. I think there’s one. There’s three Really? Once again, two or three really cool things you just shared.

00;33;23;08 – 00;33;48;10

Speaker 2

But one is relationships are never meant to be one direction. All goes back to 100% both ways. And I take the whole concept and if you want to go fast, get one. It’s going to go far. Go together. I’m going together implies working together. It’s a team and it’s not just two individuals. So that’s one too. You said, All right, I just think it’s freaking awesome.

00;33;48;28 – 00;34;12;11

Speaker 2

Everything is falling apart. Things are getting harder. Money’s drying up. The onus is going to get worse. The job front is looking scarier by the day. Let’s start a business that takes some that takes one audacity to commitment to each other, right? To be like, Yeah, this is crazy. Yeah, let’s sit together and it’s the best we got.

00;34;12;11 – 00;34;33;11

Speaker 2

So let’s run this right and in three, it’s awesome because you talked about what you’re aiming, right, what you’re putting your focus on. And I think that’s one of the central themes that we’ve come through. All the conversations we’ll continue to see as we have discussions like this is, yeah, things can get really bad and if that’s what you focus on, it will absolutely destroy you, right?

00;34;33;16 – 00;34;55;17

Speaker 2

You have to lift your eyes upward, pick a target and pursue it. Yeah, right. And that is what this business became for you guys became this collective seeing how much of a relief was it to define something that you could pursue not only alone but together that wasn’t related to a loss of functionality or something that was that a huge relief?

00;34;55;24 – 00;35;31;05

Speaker 2

Oh, yeah. I mean, it’s something that, you know, I mean, to this day, I still remember, you know, when, you know, she was planning the, you know, product that we carry, she planning. You know, we eventually did open this door. She’s this the design and stuff like that is the gleam in her eye as thick as she was and, and everything.

00;35;31;15 – 00;36;13;24

Speaker 2

Having that to focus on and to look to. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, it was a huge, huge relief to have something else to look at besides what I was going wrong, you know, and having the hope of, of doing something, you know, to, to improve our situation in whatever way we could have something to look. What would you say?

00;36;15;01 – 00;36;45;04

Speaker 2

I’m just I’m just thinking there’s a lesson here that I want to capture for my for myself once. But it sounds like what you discovered when you came to that point was also and even more so for you, because the thing you keep referencing is the gleam in her eye, the energy enjoyed by her. Right. And how much of a relief it must have been for you to see her in that positive state instead of just downcast and downtrodden all the time, or in whatever capacity that was that I do think it’s a natural reaction.

00;36;45;04 – 00;37;05;24

Speaker 2

We see someone hurt and it’s like, Oh, I’m so sorry. And you know, what can I do to help and all this stuff? And like, if it’s a if it’s something that’s not sure, right, Like flashy then bad thing And now you recovering. If it’s something that’s ongoing, it almost seems like one of the best things you can do is walk alongside them doing the dishes, things like that.

00;37;05;24 – 00;37;33;26

Speaker 2

But how can you discover, how can you walk with them to the discovery of that item that they can invest in? Right. I don’t know of anyone who’s laying on the couch somewhere with an illness or injury that wants to just be laying there moping in the pain. You know, why? Why try to keep them there and under the guise of helping them, if instead we can come alongside collectively to find something to add value and perspective.

00;37;33;26 – 00;38;05;08

Speaker 2

Any difference from laying there. Right, Exactly. And, you know, she had to do something more sinister. Why don’t you why don’t you just give up? Why do you keep you’re pushing yourself, you know, and and then she said, you know, why don’t you just, you know, take it, kids, come take me. Why don’t you just die? She said what they’re saying.

00;38;05;08 – 00;38;25;20

Speaker 2

Yeah. She’s like she said, you know, she said, Well, actually, I. I’m in so much pain. And I do ask God every day. But she said, I am not going to die before she comes. And she said, as long as I’m here, I’m going to live as best as I can.

00;38;26;09 – 00;38;27;09

Speaker 1

There’s a soundbite.

00;38;27;20 – 00;38;29;07

Speaker 2

Well, that’s just really powerful. I mean.

00;38;29;10 – 00;38;30;11

Speaker 1

I will not die before.

00;38;30;11 – 00;38;51;22

Speaker 2

I die. I will not choose to die. I want to die. I’m suffering. But I refuse to choose to. Right. And, you know, she she’d seen several people in her life that, you know, that had basically given up. And and she said, I just won’t do that, you know. So yeah it’s it is that it is a choice.

00;38;51;22 – 00;39;48;05

Speaker 2

And we see that this is a lot of people just giving up and choosing, you know, choosing how choosing depression, choosing to walk away from marriage or walking away from whatever, you know, it would, you know, it’s it’s also the choice to stick it out and find the best you can with whatever situation you’re in. Yes. So and she was quite a fighter because so you you walk through this with her for 20 years and she’s since deceased pass and what were the projections because it sounded like 20 years is significantly longer than what you both were anticipating.

00;39;48;19 – 00;40;24;10

Speaker 2

What was the survival you that the doctors are saying? So when when she has leukemia survivability at that point was she had a 30% chance to to live through the three year treatment and then and then she had a 2% chance to live ten years beyond that, which which again, we have. And when we matches were that ten year mark where they said, I’ve only got 10% chance of getting to this point.

00;40;24;26 – 00;40;52;26

Speaker 2

And that’s why they said you don’t get to live even ten years beyond that. So, you know, we should be here at about 30. And then about the time that she started to get sick and when she the type of illness she had no word in, you’re usually you know, it progresses in ten years is about the most you have.

00;40;53;26 – 00;41;32;11

Speaker 2

I mean, you know like lesson and things like that. It’s very similar type of progression. Usually it’s usually, you know, once you start having those muscle weaknesses and it’s progressive, it’s like ten years max. And, you know, and she actually lived 15 years beyond that ten year she was terminal illness for almost 25 years. So but yeah, so we always joke about how she lived 15 years beyond her expiration date.

00;41;34;16 – 00;42;02;15

Speaker 2

And that just demonstrates the warrior in her, right? Yes. That I’m not going to quit even though I want to have this stop. I refuse to quit. And it also demonstrates that we’re in you to walk through that right there. Right. There’s a steadfastness that I mean, because like walking through this and when you shared the point where she’s like, I actually do want to die, like I actually do want to do, I actually do ask every night, Hey, it’d be great if I go, but I’m going to wake up in the sun.

00;42;03;24 – 00;42;19;04

Speaker 2

Like, this isn’t a choice. It’s a request. But I’m going right, and I’m going to build this business. I’m going to want the best life I can with you and I’m going to do these things. And that was immensely. Yes. And I think people are starving for that. I mean, I’m starving for that. And I’m doing the best I can to foster that home.

00;42;19;16 – 00;42;52;12

Speaker 2

Right? Because everywhere we look, right there is hurt and loss and loneliness. And we I mean, each one of us can do a little bit by not perpetuating that by, you know, saying, okay, let’s not quit, let’s keep dragging on. That was just so powerful. I thought it was really awesome. And it really puts into context things you may be disagreeing with with your spouse on like, Oh, I’m having this argument with my buddy or it’s my wife or what have you, my husband, whatever the case may be.

00;42;52;12 – 00;43;00;14

Speaker 2

And so I just listen to this and all of a sudden I just want to go hug him, say thank you and not be so bloody hungry.

00;43;02;10 – 00;43;11;00

Speaker 1

And my wife, not as bad because I didn’t compliment her hair today, so I was doing that. It’s totally a different situation that she.

00;43;11;06 – 00;43;45;29

Speaker 2

So she survived 15 years past the expiration date, which is hilarious. Great way to bring some humor into it. Right? What? So how how long ago then, did this part of the journey end for you? Yeah. So she passed away four and a half years ago. And how’s. How’s the walk? How’s how’s it been since then? You know, it’s.

00;43;45;29 – 00;44;24;24

Speaker 2

Yeah, well, it’s very interesting making a complete turn from some, you know, from full time caregiver to no longer having having that to do so. But, you know, it’s also, you know, you know, we had gone through losses so many times and I’d never really studied how to breathe, how to deal with stress and things like that. So I knew I knew the things that I needed to do and the things that I needed not to do.

00;44;26;04 – 00;45;08;20

Speaker 2

Things like, you know, you know, when you’re in that kind of grief, you know. NY Times, you know, when I get out and be with people, you guess where I sit. And I knew that that would just be a spiral if I did that. So I, you know, I immediately went out and got involved in that, got involved in my career trying to in some community groups and, you know, and also learning to another big thing with mental health was stress recovery.

00;45;08;20 – 00;45;40;17

Speaker 2

Grief recovery is trying new things. And and, you know, there is there’s a lot of things that you know I couldn’t do because I was home and take care of her. And I feel able to go out and try some different and started doing karaoke. You know, I was you know, you know, gave me you know, I took a karaoke facility because I knew that I would have to share my story.

00;45;40;17 – 00;46;17;27

Speaker 2

And we have to be willing to get up in front of people and talk. And and so I decided, well, karaoke is something that I can do something different, but also give me a chance to to get to work through the fear of making for myself and of people. Oh, what a great remedy. One, I love it. It’s interesting because it’s like if your resolution hasn’t been shown through this entire conversation, your indomitable spirit just sung out when you literally looked off the precipice.

00;46;17;27 – 00;46;40;06

Speaker 2

And to I know you say, Oh yeah, it’ll be the end of me and I can spiral into despair from the final loss in this long, arduous, painful journey. But I refuse to do that. I choose to continue to live in tandem with the best that I can, so that one for myself. But to probably to honor your life.

00;46;40;16 – 00;47;17;11

Speaker 2

Exactly. I mean, I it what is to own her because we had a succession so she’s like, you know, I don’t want you to, you know, when I’m someone I don’t want you feeling sorry for yourself. And, you know, I want you to get out and do the things that you’ve been able to do. And so I’m, you know, I you know, she’s she’d known some people that were you know, they’re like, well, and I don’t want my spouse, you know.

00;47;18;03 – 00;47;20;24

Speaker 1

Even looking at another woman. Right. There’s nothing like.

00;47;22;02 – 00;47;34;12

Speaker 2

Like really come on. So don’t you want, you know, the best? You know, I wanted you to really miss me or, you know.

00;47;34;12 – 00;47;36;06

Speaker 1

Yeah. Just grieve for the rest of your life.

00;47;36;12 – 00;48;02;27

Speaker 2

That’s the goal. Yeah. I mean, she. She told me, you know, I know what you’re doing. I want you to. To go out and. And, you know, and live life. And that was her life. So. And of course, I’m going to, you know, so that was something I could do to really honor her was to to live life the best that I can after burial afterwards.

00;48;03;18 – 00;48;25;06

Speaker 2

So here you are, living life. I mean, now the sun’s up at seven in the morning. We’re recording a podcast. This is new to you, right? You’re sharing your story again, right? Which I imagine some of the courage for that’s been built from your wild karaoke and karaoke adventures and stuff. We met a few years ago and then haven’t been in touch at all.

00;48;25;06 – 00;48;46;23

Speaker 2

Frankly, I was just announced. I recognize your name 20 years ago. I think I know. But you know. And now you’re going on some adventure. So you’re continuing to live and continue growing at ten. And I can I do I do see more light in life than you. Now. And it makes sense because I wasn’t aware of your circumstances.

00;48;46;23 – 00;49;12;20

Speaker 2

But when we met, it was fairly recent. Still, after business, you’re probably climbing out of it the whole. Mike My question, if you feel comfortable putting aside on looking back over the last 25, 30 years, right from the day we I guess it’s kind of word as best I can, maybe it’s kind of three part two. Is there anything you do different?

00;49;13;15 – 00;49;52;08

Speaker 2

Is there anything you wish you could tell yourself? I just started Journey, which I guess is a different of saying the same thing, or how would you encourage someone right now who’s walking through their own difficulties right now? The Yeah, yeah. There’s always things that I would do differently. You know, it’s, you know, not worry so much about.

00;49;53;12 – 00;50;28;17

Speaker 2

Yeah. You know the financial, especially the financial, you know, we held on to a lot of things that are a lot longer than we should have. We we’ve really been honest with ourselves and and put a lot of stress on ourselves because of that. You know, if you you know, eventually we had to take stock and say, this really isn’t that important.

00;50;29;13 – 00;50;54;27

Speaker 2

We can let it go. And unfortunately, it happens a lot more than we would like. But but we just kept holding on way too long to hold on to something. For years, we should have been able to let it go sooner when these.

00;50;54;27 – 00;50;55;17

Speaker 1

Are items.

00;50;55;17 – 00;51;36;23

Speaker 2

Or items and just, you know, usually just items like lifestyle items, right. Yeah. But so yeah. So no and so that’s, that’s the big thing is just don’t worry about those things so much. You the what would I tell someone who’s going through it. You know. So you know we so much want to tell people it’s going to be okay.

00;51;37;29 – 00;52;11;07

Speaker 2

Yeah we we want to we want to, you know, I mean I think, you know, homework and movies have really, you know, and tried to just the things that we can just do if we just go with this one nugget, the it’s going to be so much better, you know. And so we’re always looking for someone, you know, or some way of saying of telling someone, you know, it’s going to be better in 15 minutes, You know, at midnight.

00;52;11;07 – 00;52;38;05

Speaker 2

Nice. Give you just this one word that’s just going to make it all better. And and it doesn’t you know, it never does. And usually when we see those types of things, they are just the wrong thing to say. You. But you know, the honest truth is life is hard and it’s going to be hard. And, you know, we just have to do the best we can with what we have.

00;52;38;22 – 00;53;09;24

Speaker 2

And you. And so and I said, do not go. You know, that’s the biggest thing is to me, we are all this together. We should be all in this together. And so, yeah, if you know, if you’re just starting out in this type of a journey, you know, really take stock in which you’re, you know, and be honest with where things are going to go.

00;53;10;09 – 00;53;46;03

Speaker 2

So, you know, we can hope for the best, but we really do need to prepare for the worst and then just and then be honest with what you can and cannot do. And, you know, and then be willing to accept help, you know, and ask for help. Yeah, well, I don’t know if you’re listening to this and you didn’t realize that the last 5 minutes has basically been a condensed, rapid fire succession of wisdom and the things you want to remember.

00;53;46;27 – 00;53;49;13

Speaker 1

Yeah, just just repeat all that. Go back a minute.

00;53;49;13 – 00;54;18;24

Speaker 2

Skip back a couple minutes. Yeah. And in 5 minutes, I mean, I’m also secretly hoping this maybe sparks another nugget of wisdom from you because these are all really good. I’d love to summarize really quickly what I heard so in the interview. Sure. Right. So it was encouragement to your younger self and a sense of focus on what really matters sooner and be willing to let go of what doesn’t or distracts.

00;54;19;11 – 00;54;39;07

Speaker 2

And the sooner you are able to do that, the less costly it is, less stress, it almost less diminishing focus. You have you’re able to be more focused right. So encouragement to take stock of the situation, say, does this really matter now? And a really quick, superficial, very superficial example was yesterday was very chaotic on my very superficial stuff.

00;54;39;16 – 00;54;57;16

Speaker 2

But I cut out social media, so I didn’t use it. I use social media as a tool for a number of projects I’m working on. Actually all day long. I was like, Too much is going on. This is a high level thing. Don’t care, right? So that’s a really like example of what you’re talking about on a much deeper, heavier context.

00;54;57;16 – 00;55;03;19

Speaker 2

So I thought I may tie some, some grounding in for people whom this is just so much further than any kind of experience.

00;55;04;05 – 00;55;14;05

Speaker 1

There’s often things like little teeny ways we haven’t really there’s enough of them that they’re really adding unneeded weight to an already difficult situation.

00;55;14;06 – 00;55;38;11

Speaker 2

It’s a piece of straws are heavy, but a deal is quite a bit heavier, right? So you have all the shots and so so that was the first one. And then from there, the best my memory can do is be honest with yourself, like you’re not crazy for life being hard because it is right. It’s not supposed to be sunshine and rainbows.

00;55;38;11 – 00;55;44;27

Speaker 2

It’s not going to be sunshine and rainbows. You’re not insane for thinking. Am I the only one who doesn’t see sunshine and rainbows.

00;55;45;11 – 00;55;49;26

Speaker 1

And you’re not a target? Yeah, like, yeah, you’re one of many. It’s happening.

00;55;50;07 – 00;55;58;26

Speaker 2

You know. And I just remember what I thought was really cool about that is the second you realize and accept life is hard, it frees you to start doing the best you can and just start.

00;55;59;27 – 00;56;05;00

Speaker 1

Preparing as you said. And I love that you even you prepared for it was inevitable.

00;56;05;00 – 00;56;07;06

Speaker 2

That you knew your life was going to pass. Right.

00;56;07;15 – 00;56;27;25

Speaker 1

And oftentimes we did start to think about it like it’s too is difficult to think about. Like, I love her. I don’t want to think about that. But yours is was more like, Yeah, I want to honor her once, once this does happen, which it inevitably will, would she want me to be miserable or would she want me to do prepared for this?

00;56;28;04 – 00;56;51;00

Speaker 1

As prepared as you can. Grief is a funny thing, but once you once you go through that appropriate time, then how are you to start living right? But just thinking about that when the grief is happening is really not very helpful. Right? But prior to in creating that plan, you could.

00;56;51;00 – 00;56;52;07

Speaker 2

Be in a lot better situation.

00;56;53;17 – 00;56;54;01

Speaker 1

Knowing the.

00;56;54;01 – 00;57;11;25

Speaker 2

Difficulties. Yeah, having that plan is Yeah, that’s why it’s important to prepare. Yeah. You’re not going to think straight when you’re in the middle of that grief. Yes. You’re not going to come up with those solutions that you need to be prepared for.

00;57;11;25 – 00;57;21;17

Speaker 1

Well, and that’s why in the in the front end to harp on this or going it alone is you said don’t go alone because your brain will get funny sometimes.

00;57;21;17 – 00;57;21;26

Speaker 2

Right.

00;57;22;10 – 00;57;42;23

Speaker 1

And I’m not grieving like you are right as a friend. And I can be like, give me a little perspective. That’s part of the to not nuggets of my colleagues are saying that you up fast and pretend you’re not bleeding but but realize, hey, I know you’re going to trust this guy. I’m allecha right now. I see what you’re going to do.

00;57;43;04 – 00;57;49;16

Speaker 1

Can’t be mad, but I’m here to make sure you about make sure you don’t hurt yourself while you’re doing that.

00;57;50;03 – 00;58;21;16

Speaker 2

And that’s exactly true. I mean, we hate to see someone hurting. And so we we tend to not want to waste someone down and into our our typical responses. You know, someone’s someone’s throwing a fit, you know, trying to daydream. That’s usually to try to calm down. But, you know, you do have to let those emotions out. That’s good times.

00;58;21;16 – 00;58;23;11

Speaker 2

And being upfront.

00;58;24;04 – 00;58;37;28

Speaker 1

Yeah. And being comfortable with it. Like I’m uncomfortable. You’re uncomfortable, but. All right, I’ll be here with you. I’ll. I’ll kind of borrow that all the difficulty with you, because that’s what’s going to happen. I’m not going to kind a band to do so I can feel better.

00;58;38;05 – 00;58;58;19

Speaker 2

I want and I think that’s been part of it. Last night I learned that someone I’m really close to, really dear friend of mine, my most probably in my lifetime, and I learned it last night. I’ve been thinking through what’s the way I can support my friend here because he’s in another state. I can’t see him. And you know, I ask, Hey, what can I do for you?

00;58;58;19 – 00;59;15;22

Speaker 2

Question But I think it is not enough for me to be satisfied to know that he knows he’s not alone in this for whatever capacity. So I’m probably just going to call him. They came in right here. There’s not much I can do from here, but I am here, you know, let’s go from there and just listen to him for a bit.

00;59;15;22 – 00;59;34;15

Speaker 2

If you’re stuck, not allow him to be alone and so he probably went to space right now. That’s great. I’m going to go be with him for a bit and I’m going to push him to be discomfort, to sit in it with my body right. And think about that in context of what we just were talking about. Instead of summarizing all the points made, I think I found the central theme.

00;59;35;03 – 01;00;00;17

Speaker 2

When you find the things that are uncomfortable and ugly and painful, push into them, not away from don’t. And if you push through enough, you will be able to start creating solutions to them. Yes. Which really funny side note on that. That’s how you react to in your ambush, your depression, any data as quickly as possible. What’s true and how that’s true in life.

01;00;02;07 – 01;00;08;24

Speaker 2

Don’t run from your problems. Push through them and obviously take it in context. This one we’re having right now.

01;00;09;19 – 01;00;24;20

Speaker 1

Given the Buffalo example on a podcast that we do and I talked about it, this is a love. It’s a beautiful picture as we get to the start. Yeah, bison, right? Bison. Bison as I similar right. The whole bison resides.

01;00;24;20 – 01;00;26;11

Speaker 2

In it is national bison.

01;00;26;14 – 01;00;30;11

Speaker 1

They’re social bison instead of bison. It’s totally just.

01;00;30;16 – 01;00;31;06

Speaker 2

Snooty.

01;00;32;01 – 01;00;33;16

Speaker 1

Having me right now. Thank you. Good.

01;00;33;16 – 01;00;41;00

Speaker 2

I learned nothing about this aside from a desire. But the really cool thing about bison, whatever. And you told me this.

01;00;41;00 – 01;00;42;01

Speaker 1

I think it’s awesome.

01;00;42;06 – 01;01;02;15

Speaker 2

It is cool. I learned this studying the animal because somebody calls it open or African rats dream big. But when a huge blizzard comes, the way they survive is see, they face their body into the strongest wind. And to begin walking into the storm.

01;01;03;02 – 01;01;05;10

Speaker 1

As a herd titan and going through as a.

01;01;05;10 – 01;01;18;26

Speaker 2

Herd because they know that if they face it and they walk into it, they’ll be through it faster, right? If they run away from it, they’ll be stuck in it longer. So so they just start pushing into the storm so they can get past it. And that’s cool.

01;01;19;04 – 01;01;27;10

Speaker 1

Well, we and what we often do is run away from the storm, but then stress just follows us the whole way. It’s a much longer process. Yeah.

01;01;27;23 – 01;01;59;06

Speaker 2

And listening to your story that there wasn’t a single moment where you said, Yeah, I was doing or trying to be by myself or being alone. And the problem solved itself because my I had to stop and address it. And then we start to find resolutions or to find that we have something that is there’s things that if we had done that sooner, say there’s a lot of pain and just kept trying to do to push away from the storm sometimes.

01;01;59;24 – 01;02;18;15

Speaker 2

And like you said, it just kept coming and coming. So I’m really excited because this is the first time while we’re having the discussion, I think we’ll know what time we’ll have to go with your with this conversation. And I think it’s push into the storm with the shepherd. I like that. I like that. That’s fine.

01;02;18;28 – 01;02;40;08

Speaker 1

So I really appreciate your story. And and as a side note, as I like hearing the through this friendship that we have or even to sit now, the story like this affects us. Like this makes this gives me pause and I really think about my own situation. I know John is like, okay, what can I do for my friends, my wife, my.

01;02;40;18 – 01;02;41;01

Speaker 2

You know.

01;02;41;02 – 01;03;03;05

Speaker 1

My my workplace? You know, when I see these things happen and I’m inspired by your story, I’m giving myself lets out sharing this story. I was just like, yes, this thing about come on. But also I want to as this I know, encourage people. These stories are all around us, right? You know, we just we have got to stop and sit down.

01;03;03;05 – 01;03;27;29

Speaker 1

And I would not know this about you. It’s not like written on your face or anything, and you’re not even real vocal about it, because that’s the humility you’ve learned over these years. And but if I sit down knowing it long enough, we get these incredible stories. We could be in each other’s lives and really help each other learn more and then also be helpers through someone who is maybe still in the story.

01;03;28;13 – 01;03;32;18

Speaker 1

So let’s not close our eyes to that as we walk through this life.

01;03;32;25 – 01;03;52;28

Speaker 2

Right. And I just want to thank you before I give to you for closing remarks, because this conversation definitively encouraged me to be a better man. I know that because of the reflections on your example and what we’ve talked about today in our work, to be a better father, better husband, better friend. And that is what this is all about.

01;03;53;05 – 01;04;52;29

Speaker 2

So thank you for being on service. Thank you. And thank you for hearing me. You know, I really am glad that I can I can share this to help someone else to understand some difficulties. And, you know, I mean, as and yes, that is, you know, my situation may sound your situation is your situation now. You know, you’re going through difficult things in your own life and you it’s easy to say, oh, well, you know, now hearing his story, I know you know, I have no reason to even feel so bad about what I’m going through.

01;04;52;29 – 01;05;24;29

Speaker 2

But it’s still your situation and you haven’t gone through the same things that I’ve gone through and it’s still a you know, So Yeah. So try to measure against someone else’s story that we’ve all, we all have things you then when to hear a lot of people do something.