In episode two from The Grit Theory the roles are reversed and now it is Aaron’s turn to sit in the hot seat. 

Highlights from the discussion include:

• Why we should pursue difficulty, discomfort and challenge.
• Why we should let our children face hardship.
• The importance of considering perception, reputation and the legacy that we are creating.
• The central theme of serving others, and how to get there. 
• Outrageous goal setting.
• How to overcome the urge to quit when things are brutally hard. 
• The critical importance of selecting our inner circles carefully. 
• Honoring “Way Makers” and our excitement around bringing in more voices to the conversation.
• Goals and hopes for “The Grit Theory” over the coming year. 

Did you find value in today’s conversation? SHARE IT! 

Also, check out Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be waymakers HERE.

Do you want to learn more? Check out:

The Book: Be Relentless: If the obstacle is the way, then we must be WayMakers.

The Podcast: “Be Relentless Podcast”

The Fuel: Sisu Stamina, Performance Evolved

Linktree: Here.

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Episode Transcript

08;06;38;20 – 08;06;32;07

Jon

All right. Hello, everyone, this is Jon Mayo. And as always, I’m joined with Aaron Robinson, my fellow co-host.

08;06;32;04 – 08;06;31;15

Aaron

Hello.

08;06;31;06 – 08;06;28;05

Jon

Yeah, today’s an exciting day because we get to focus on you.

08;06;26;20 – 08;06;16;12

Aaron

Yeah, exciting. I feel it’s weird because even though we’re friends, I feel a little nervous right now. I don’t know if that’s because I’m bracing for impact from you. Just knowing who you are, but we’ll go for it.

08;06;16;12 – 08;06;14;25

Aaron

I don’t care. I trust you.

08;06;14;12 – 08;06;11;17

Jon

You should be crunching just a little bit.

08;06;07;21 – 08;06;07;03

Aaron

I just remember.

08;06;07;03 – 08;05;57;05

Aaron

That thing you tell me just cracks me up when you said, I said, surprise to you one time. And he said, Don’t say that to me, Aaron. So what do you mean? Because when I hear surprise.

08;05;56;28 – 08;05;54;11

Aaron

I hear Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.

08;05;53;28 – 08;05;44;04

Aaron

That’s kind of what our friendship has been. I feel like here, and I got a surprise for you. Like, I’m going to get I’m going to pummeled by something. It’s not going to be a wonderful, nice thing.

08;05;43;24 – 08;05;43;03

Aaron

And for a.

08;05;43;03 – 08;05;36;17

Jon

Little bit more context on the bam, bam, bam, bam. Yeah, that’s like a gun, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then I’m on the ground. It’s like Bang, bang, bang.

08;05;36;00 – 08;05;33;29

Aaron

Yeah, exactly. That’s that’s what’s happening.

08;05;33;29 – 08;05;32;18

Jon

It’s like this hilarious twist.

08;05;30;27 – 08;05;28;28

Aaron

Like, that’s Jon’s mind. It’s a little.

08;05;28;28 – 08;05;28;12

Aaron

Off.

08;05;27;23 – 08;05;14;04

Jon

But well, I did admit in episode one that I’m not well. Yeah, that’s true. So there are so many openings I wanted to do with you. Like the one I really wanted to do for a long time was just ask how you became a silver fox?

08;05;12;19 – 08;04;57;23

Jon

Right? So many of my friends reach out and be like, Who’s that handsome dude you’re working with? He’s out of your league as a friend, which I’m not. Even I’ll spare you the response to that.

08;04;57;23 – 08;04;56;29

Aaron

All right. All right.

08;04;56;29 – 08;04;50;26

Jon

But it is the perfect segue way. Yesterday, you made public on social media that you need a pick. Better friends.

08;04;50;14 – 08;04;50;02

Aaron

That’s true.

08;04;50;01 – 08;04;49;16

Aaron

Why?

08;04;48;20 – 08;04;32;13

Aaron

Well, Jon, the reason why I got to pick better friends is because they make me uncomfortable. And so simultaneously, I have wonderful friends like yourself and I have terrible friends because I don’t get a. I don’t know.

08;04;32;11 – 08;04;31;17

Aaron

There’s there’s.

08;04;31;17 – 08;04;18;28

Aaron

Less hedonism in my life than I want to have, you know, but I guess that’s kind of that’s the good tension that we need to put in our life. So I do appreciate it, but simultaneously it’s it’s aggravating.

08;04;18;21 – 08;04;14;26

Aaron

So that’s where we’re at. Yeah. So let’s put.

08;04;14;26 – 08;04;04;00

Jon

On that a little bit more because it’s I think very I think some of the context of it is very true to what we want to look at here. Yeah, right here, we’re exploring extraordinary and dumbed will people, right?

08;04;03;29 – 08;03;49;28

Jon

We’re makers and you’re one of them. You are an incredibly interesting human being. And we’ve kind of sparked this ongoing joke where when we do something truly horrible, you’re like, I need to pick better friends. I don’t know why I’m here.

08;03;48;13 – 08;03;40;02

Jon

And yesterday was one of those days. Yup. And I have a two part question for you. What? What did we do yesterday that inspired that? And why do you keep doing that?

08;03;40;01 – 08;03;25;20

Aaron

Yeah, yeah. So as you know, Jon and I had one of the things we like to do is exercise. It’s sort of like this. It kind of makes the metaphysical of physical reality, you know, it’s kind of going on internally.

08;03;25;20 – 08;03;12;26

Aaron

It’s like, we’re not really running. We’re exercising a peace internally in us, right? So that’s why we do it. It’s not like, I’m like, it’s vain. And I don’t think it’s vanity that although I don’t like, you know, being fat or anything.

08;03;12;26 – 08;02;55;03

Aaron

But but I think it’s more than that. It’s like the mental acuity that comes from that. The meditation that comes to that. I think it’s it’s so powerful for the day. But yesterday we brought it up a notch in that we I woke up and as I do and I know we’re going to go running.

08;02;54;27 – 08;02;38;13

Aaron

I looked at the temperature and the temperature was a resounding zero degrees. There was not a degree, not one, not one degree to warm me up. And then in addition, of course, there’s the wind and the wind.

08;02;38;13 – 08;02;37;26

Jon

Mile per hour.

08;02;37;14 – 08;02;24;24

Aaron

Yeah. 19. And it carried a resounding negative, I guess, competing degrees in the 20 degree variety. So negative 20 wind.

08;02;23;25 – 08;02;23;08

Aaron

Yeah.

08;02;22;20 – 08;02;17;15

Aaron

That was that was really cold, and it was. And everything in me didn’t want to do it.

08;02;17;03 – 08;02;15;20

Jon

Well, the clothing didn’t help.

08;02;15;00 – 08;02;12;19

Aaron

Yeah, yeah. You gave me some tips later.

08;02;11;20 – 08;02;08;12

Jon

And then we got back to the gym. Yeah, and that was it. Much better?

08;02;07;25 – 08;01;55;09

Aaron

No, no, no. It was so cold in there. Like to touch the metal for more than ten seconds. Was was encouraging frostbite through the gloves? Yeah, that’s how cold it was.

08;01;55;08 – 08;01;49;10

Jon

Yeah, we quite literally needed to bring a bonfire, a propane bonfire in to just keep our hands warm between sets.

08;01;49;09 – 08;01;42;00

Aaron

Yes, our triple set was there was one workout, the second workout and the third workout was warm, hands over fire.

08;01;41;06 – 08;01;40;18

Aaron

Then repeat.

08;01;39;17 – 08;01;23;28

Jon

It was and it’s been interesting because since you and I have been working out more consistently, which has been about the last six months, especially as winters come. Yeah, there seems to have been a shift that I think you were you were pulling on earlier about how it’s not about the workout.

08;01;23;20 – 08;01;12;28

Jon

No, it’s about something it does more mentally. Yeah. And one of the things I notice from you as your friend is that at first is like, Jon, what are we doing? Are you sure we should be doing this like.

08;01;12;24 – 08;01;12;17

Aaron

It’s.

08;01;11;28 – 08;01;01;10

Jon

There’s 30 mile per hour winds and it’s freezing. It’s blowing snow. You know, it’s like, I know, I’m not sure, Aaron, but let’s do it again. And now I hear you use words like, This is what we do.

08;01;01;01 – 08;00;50;08

Jon

Yeah, and it’s kind of. Has that shifted into your day also, and what is that shift felt like and look like in what it clearly is keeping you doing it? Why?

08;00;50;05 – 08;00;44;22

Aaron

Yeah, you know, Jon, you’re saying that and thinking of our listeners here.

08;00;44;22 – 08;00;44;05

Aaron

Where.

08;00;43;15 – 08;00;28;20

Aaron

At some point we’ve got to realize the things that are difficult impact other people. Otherwise we’ll stop doing it because personally, if I’m just serving myself and no one else is affected, it’s really easy to quit on things, you know, like, I’m a bad personal accountability partner.

08;00;28;20 – 08;00;09;21

Aaron

But when I know that like someone else’s encouragement is on the line, I think it’s like a first responder or something where it’s like, Look, I don’t feel like doing this thing today, but that person, the person that I’m going to affect, doesn’t know that I don’t feel like I want to do it, but they need me

08;00;09;10 – 09;59;53;16

Aaron

to be there and doing it. And so sometimes the attitude comes along. That’s ideal. Like, I love that. As difficult was that I felt like guttural laughing coming from us because it was so it brought a joy out of that suffering that I thought was wonderful, you know?

09;59;53;14 – 09;59;46;06

Aaron

But it takes time to get there. You know, the if you that was if that was day one, I’d be like, this is the worst mistake I’ve ever.

09;59;46;06 – 09;59;45;21

Aaron

Made, right?

09;59;45;07 – 09;59;24;05

Aaron

But because we’ve done it enough times, I’m realizing, man, this is this is really affecting my attitude in a wonderful way. You know? Yeah. So for those people that have to do the the thing that they don’t want to do, I just I think I recognize that I know they’re doing it for more than just them.

09;59;24;05 – 09;59;23;01

Aaron

And I think that’s a wonderful thing.

09;59;22;22 – 09;59;06;20

Jon

And it’s kind of. So, yeah, if I’m hearing you correctly, this is in some way an act in which you get to do the same. Mm-Hmm. You get to put yourself through something that you may not want to do, but you hope it’s an encouragement or something to either yourself to be a better person.

09;59;06;19 – 09;59;01;22

Jon

Thus, be able to serve better elsewhere or the act itself may encourage someone is absolutely.

09;59;01;22 – 09;58;51;28

Aaron

And conversely, if you don’t do something, it’s going to. It will impact more than just you don’t don’t kid yourself. When you say no to something, someone’s being effective.

09;58;51;15 – 09;58;34;20

Jon

So I like to keep digging in this a little bit because I think that, yeah, from observing you, this is something extremely essential to who you are. From my observation, that is, if it’s not serving something more than yourself, you immediately become uninterested.

09;58;34;18 – 09;58;20;25

Jon

Mm hmm. I’ve noticed that you’re very uncomfortable allowing things in if it’s just for you and you found this amazing balance where you can recharge and recuperate and find joy from things that are also beneficial to others, you know?

09;58;20;18 – 09;58;03;12

Jon

And I think it’s one of the things that makes you such an extraordinary person and friend. And why? Why do you care so much that everything you do kind of shines a light? Right? And even with your workouts, you want those to be like an encouragement to others, and you shared stories on how it has encouraged other

09;58;03;12 – 09;58;00;11

Jon

friends to do certain things. Why is that so critical to you?

09;57;59;25 – 09;57;42;04

Aaron

Yeah. Thanks, Jon. And also just, you know, just to be totally honest, like that’s a challenge constantly. Like, sometimes I knowingly do things that are selfish. It’s just a matter of having having the the honesty to examine it.

09;57;41;27 – 09;57;27;14

Aaron

Hmm. You know, and you know, like the classic examples like how much screen time are you given just to you? It’s not, you know, you know, and you’re not sharing life with somebody else or, you know, the list goes on and on as far as what activities you’re doing.

09;57;25;14 – 09;57;07;11

Aaron

But I think I think what’s really important to me is sort of like this old joke. I heard about a a guy who went to hell and he’s playing golf right? And there’s an onlooker who’s trying to ask Saint Peter, you know, it’s like, it’s always Saint Peter.

09;57;07;11 – 09;56;53;19

Aaron

It’s like, Why that was my enemy? Why does he get to go and play golf for all of eternity? And then he watches a guy and then he like, smacks the ball. And then in the ball is a hole in one and he’s like, You got to be kidding me, this is the sky’s eternity.

09;56;53;19 – 09;56;41;13

Aaron

And then Saint Peter just leans over to the guy and he says, Yeah, but who’s he going to tell, you know? And so the whole idea is, if you live a life that’s just for you, you know who is, who are you going to be high fiving?

09;56;41;12 – 09;56;30;15

Aaron

There’s a real joy in being able to go through the journey with somebody. And those are stories you get to share and look back on and laugh. And you know that those are great conversations I have, I feel like.

09;56;28;28 – 09;56;25;07

Jon

Yeah, there’s there’s two parts I wish I could go down, both of them.

09;56;23;15 – 09;56;22;04

Aaron

Choose your own adventure. Come on, Jon.

09;56;21;26 – 09;56;09;10

Jon

Choose your own adventure. I think the first and it’s especially true to choosing to do the hard right over the easy wrongs or whatever. Yeah, is you mentioned really? You know, I do selfish things like I said, why right?

09;56;08;28 – 09;55;52;11

Jon

Anyone who is honest with themselves probably would realize that video. Like, actually, I’ll say that definitively, everyone to selfish things. Sure, anyone can try and argue with that. I’d like to hear it. But you know, just to throw that out there, it’s kind of fun last time when we did did that around fatherhood, but.

09;55;50;23 – 09;55;43;04

Jon

Why in the world do you choose to face yourself, why do you examine what could be a weakness and what does it do for you? That’s uncomfortable.

09;55;42;07 – 09;55;16;24

Aaron

Yeah, that’s that’s a discussion we’ve had. Right. And that’s a journey of becoming an adult. Because. Our mind. All it wants to do is preserve and be comfortable. It’s like its job, you know, don’t do that thing. In its almost sets off an alarm like you’re hurting yourself, you’re you know, this is this is dangerous.

09;55;15;19 – 09;55;04;12

Aaron

And yet the spirit in you has to overcome that and say, you know what, mind you need to stop holding us back from accomplishing something really great here.

09;55;04;11 – 09;55;04;02

Aaron

Mm hmm.

09;55;03;11 – 09;54;47;28

Aaron

And I didn’t ask you if this is. I didn’t say that comfort is a requisite for good things. And oftentimes, I think almost I mean, 95% of the time discomfort has to exist in order to grow.

09;54;47;04 – 09;54;40;08

Jon

Hmm. I love that we have a poster in the gym we share that says comfort is a slow death. Prefer pain.

09;54;39;16 – 09;54;35;02

Aaron

Exactly right. It sounds masochistic, but there is a real deep truth in that.

09;54;34;16 – 09;54;18;20

Jon

There is when you take a pass, the rah right? Right. When you look at the reality like. Oh, I want to do this thing, and it’s going to give us this wonderful reward, right? Yeah, but it’s difficult. Maybe it’s lack of difficulty is a slow death.

09;54;17;27 – 09;53;59;15

Aaron

Jon. We’re living in an age right now where the art of conflict, just talking and having conflict is dying. Like, I think the coasting mentality right now mentally is just don’t engage if someone’s going to get upset and like, why is that?

09;53;59;08 – 09;53;43;01

Aaron

I would really challenge that. Like, have more conflicts with people. Do it healthy, do it respectful. But I’ll tell you that everything you learn will be from a conflict of some on some level something that challenges the way you thought before.

09;53;42;08 – 09;53;35;28

Aaron

And we just have to have a presumption, a good wise presumption. You don’t know everything.

09;53;35;22 – 09;53;35;12

Aaron

Mm-Hmm.

09;53;34;20 – 09;53;27;00

Aaron

And and you’re just one conflict away from challenging something that needs to be adjusted. So it’s uncomfortable. It’s very uncomfortable to your point.

09;53;26;16 – 09;53;06;10

Jon

Well, if we could just string like a plumb line, like a solid thing through a few words, we said, I better paint the picture. It’s. Discomfort, it’s a difficulty, it’s conflict, right? All these things are one in the same, you could almost use them interchangeably.

09;53;06;10 – 09;52;52;15

Jon

It’s uncomfortable to look myself in the mirror and say, I’m messing this up. Yeah, it’s uncomfortable to. Stop eating the things you want when they’re making you unhealthy. You know it, you’re in conflict with yourself in those situations.

09;52;52;11 – 09;52;39;24

Jon

Yeah, it’s very difficult when you’re mad with a friend or your significant other to push past that rage or that anger, or that whatever it is that makes you want nothing more than to stay silent and say nothing at that point.

09;52;39;24 – 09;52;33;22

Jon

Right. And. Work towards a conclusion, you know, that is beneficial.

09;52;33;20 – 09;52;33;07

Aaron

Yeah.

09;52;32;29 – 09;52;12;12

Jon

And I think that through, you know, it’s uncomfortable to do the hard thing at work. You know, whatever that work may be to progress to the next level. Yeah. And I think that when you look at those scenarios through the the lenses of discomfort, conflict difficulty, all of a sudden it’s easier to connect from any from anywhere

09;52;12;10 – 09;52;10;23

Aaron

. And and normalize it and.

09;52;10;23 – 09;52;10;07

Jon

Normalize it.

09;52;10;02 – 09;51;53;12

Aaron

Like when it’s there and it’s uncomfortable. Rather than go to the path of man of Exit, which is which is where, let’s face it, like when you’re out there running, you know, like you did this morning and it’s like snowing and icy and nasty.

09;51;52;24 – 09;51;35;00

Aaron

Your mind will always at least at least at one point there will be a suggestion you. Maybe you shouldn’t do this right? That voice gets quieter over time, but there’s always an exit strategy that’s available to you. It’s very loud if you haven’t created that discipline in your life, and so it’s easy to go, Oh, this is

09;51;35;00 – 09;51;18;20

Aaron

hard when you stop. But if you’ve increased, the volume on discipline is our friend. This is part of the process. If it’s difficult, it’s it’s almost telling that you’re doing the right thing versus the opposite where this is a bad idea.

09;51;17;29 – 09;51;08;17

Jon

So how in the world do that and how does that help you better serve since that’s like, how does that help you better love your four kids, your wife, right?

09;51;07;24 – 09;50;49;20

Aaron

Great question. Yeah, we are transferring to others what we are willing to go out and get, you know, so I wouldn’t tell my kids to go do something that I am either unwilling or haven’t already gone down the road to do.

09;50;48;15 – 09;50;33;00

Aaron

And so we’re coming home with those thoughts and ideas of like. You know, difficult difficulties, our friend, then then then when my kids bring it up, like they’re seeing my their dad like, I don’t. Am I a comfort dad?

09;50;32;29 – 09;50;17;29

Aaron

You know, are you seeing me doing whatever is the easiest? Or do you see me think intentionally knowing it’s difficult? Sometimes you find out it’s difficult later. Now that happens a lot too. It’s bigger. This is bigger than I thought it was, and I would never start the journey, which is a gift, because now you’re in it

09;50;16;27 – 09;49;58;15

Aaron

, you’re going to you’re going to finish it. But not unlike marriage or anything else like this is harder than I thought it was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you’re going to get strong through this, right? So going and tell my kids that same thing, you know, whether it’s right now, it’s so small, comparatively speaking, you know, from adult

09;49;58;15 – 09;49;40;12

Aaron

, but a kid, it’s everything that they can’t figure out math. It’s like everything that they’re not as good at a sport. It’s everything that they’re not is that they they can’t figure out how to read as fast as the other kids, like watching them go through that difficulty is sort.

09;49;40;12 – 09;49;40;07

Aaron

Of.

09;49;39;08 – 09;49;23;16

Aaron

You see it on their own smaller level, what you’re dealing with and you just have different tasks and different difficulties. It never goes away. And so to be able to kind of, you know, kneel down, look, the kid in there, it’s like, I know this is hard, you know, like, I’m getting emotional just like this, like dad’s

09;49;23;16 – 09;49;11;04

Aaron

heart coming out. But it’s like, I know this is hard. Like, What are you going to do about it? You know, how are you going to respond to difficulty because I don’t want you to run away? This is going to be your whole life.

09;49;10;12 – 09;49;00;04

Aaron

So what do we do? And I want to help you do that. You know, I want to. I’m partnering with you to do that. And in teaching, that has been a powerful thing. I just it’s incredible to get that back.

09;48;59;24 – 09;48;37;03

Jon

We’re talking about some pretty high level concepts right now. Right, right. To bring it to Earth a little bit and to continue into it because I think we’re really working on something frankly awesome, right? Like inspiring. You said that you wouldn’t have your children do something that you’ve not already walked in or are willing to do.

09;48;36;28 – 09;48;30;20

Jon

Right, right. And when you see them struggle. You’re not protecting them from it.

09;48;30;05 – 09;48;28;06

Aaron

No, why? No.

09;48;27;15 – 09;48;26;25

Aaron

It’s it’s.

09;48;26;09 – 09;48;26;02

Aaron

It’s.

09;48;25;05 – 09;48;09;16

Aaron

Somebody might listen and think they’re going to have opposing opinions. But let me say this is just my journey. I know the immutable law of difficult difficulty will always be incumbent upon us. It’s how we’re going to deal with it.

09;48;08;11 – 09;47;46;21

Aaron

And. I’ll tell you the difficulty that will always arise if you try to avoid difficulty is the difficulty of dealing with the fact that you. I suspect that you could be greater. Hmm. And that is a worse difficulty to me to deal with, but it produces no fruit.

09;47;46;02 – 09;47;29;17

Aaron

So why, you know, why work a garden that does, does nothing doesn’t produce anything. I’d rather have the difficulty of cultivating something that has lasting impact in my life. Hmm. If it’s going to be difficult, might as well be something.

09;47;29;07 – 09;47;24;08

Aaron

Have a good product out of it. So, yeah, you’re going to see some.

09;47;24;08 – 09;47;07;15

Jon

Yeah, I mean, I’m just thinking listening to you. I agree wholeheartedly. Yeah, right. We. In the in the mail household, refused to protect our children from hardship and difficulty, right, obviously to a point. There are things that mom or their dad are going to step in and not allow.

09;47;07;11 – 09;46;56;07

Jon

Right? But you know, it’s negative three degrees today. Really small example. Super short. I went out did the work out, the run, all that my boys do. We have to go take care of the animals we do today.

09;46;56;07 – 09;46;44;19

Jon

It’s really cold. You absolutely do. Who’s going to feed them and care for them if you don’t do your duty? Right, right, right. They bundle up. They went, did it? That’s a difficulty many would maybe not want their children to experience, but it makes them more resilient.

09;46;44;12 – 09;46;24;12

Jon

You know, and if life is a journey on a road? There’s no way to make that road safeguarded and easy. No, we can if if I protect my sons from hardship, I will die. Mm hmm. They will then face the hardships of this world unequipped and without my support.

09;46;24;00 – 09;46;11;11

Jon

As they learn to to work through them and thrive. And that’s what I think. That’s what you’re touching on with the Garnett’s. I don’t want to cultivate something. I don’t want to pour into something, create something and send it for me and have it die.

09;46;11;07 – 09;46;04;13

Jon

Yet I want it to thrive despite the difficulty that goes back to everything we’re talking about, doesn’t it?

09;46;04;05 – 09;45;44;11

Aaron

Yeah, I mean, it’s I think it’s a law you can have. You can observe, especially you have a farmer. You know, it’s if you help a check, open an egg, it will die. It will not live because its first lesson in life is difficulty will produce the muscles by which you will live.

09;45;43;26 – 09;45;30;03

Aaron

Mm-Hmm. And that’s what parents have to do for. I mean, if if a chicken gets it a dumb animal like a chicken gets it, why not us where we can allow difficulty to be a teacher with parameters like you said?

09;45;29;14 – 09;45;19;11

Aaron

It’d be wise with it, but let our kids cry. Let our kids fail. I mean, I think a lot of us as parents don’t want to do that because it’s difficult for us to watch it.

09;45;19;06 – 09;45;18;24

Aaron

Mm-Hmm.

09;45;18;14 – 09;45;12;27

Aaron

And we have to be OK with that difficulty where we stay in that and let it be the teacher.

09;45;12;25 – 09;44;54;18

Jon

What’s messy, too? Yeah. If you let your Four-Year-Old cook eggs with supervision, with supervision, right, they’re going to they’re probably able to do it. Yeah, but you’re going to have three eggs on the ceiling. But but the next time, there may only be one on the ceiling right now of four year olds cooking.

09;44;54;18 – 09;44;51;03

Jon

It’s breakfast with supervision. While you’re tending to whatever you know.

09;44;51;02 – 09;44;42;14

Aaron

And Boise proud of what he produces to this messy thing. But what can you do as a data other than go, Wow, well, that’s cool. You tried that, you know?

09;44;42;02 – 09;44;26;07

Jon

And I think this is directly central. Yeah, this is 100% on target with what we’re talking about a second ago on why in the world do you weigh your art? You’re up at five. You still get in the car when it’s negative 20 with wind chill zero degrees.

09;44;26;07 – 09;44;14;21

Jon

There’s not one of those guys. We can go fine on the run. Hmm. And you still pursue these things, right? We’ve talked about that, and it’s the same reason to cultivate something of value that can thrive in difficulty.

09;44;13;11 – 09;44;08;15

Jon

In yourself so that you can then give that to your children as they learn to do the same.

09;44;08;14 – 09;44;07;15

Aaron

Yes, that’s.

09;44;07;15 – 09;44;04;21

Jon

Right. That seems to be a way to wrap a bow on that in a sense.

09;44;04;13 – 09;44;03;09

Aaron

Yup. I think.

09;44;01;22 – 09;43;47;23

Aaron

That’s where we have to just be comfortable in the discomfort, that’s a thing like let that be a normal thing is is embrace it and little things like it’s cold today. You’re not going to die.

09;43;47;23 – 09;43;47;03

Aaron

It’s, you know.

09;43;46;09 – 09;43;36;21

Aaron

I don’t like taking the garbage out in the cold day, you know, just like they just like the next guy, right? But it’s not like it’s going to overwhelm me. I just don’t like it. It’s uncomfortable.

09;43;36;15 – 09;43;32;04

Jon

But there’s this really fun mentality like super right field, but just too much.

09;43;31;19 – 09;43;31;08

Aaron

OK.

09;43;31;03 – 09;43;22;07

Jon

And it’s from like this Espada the movie. Yeah, where it’s like we will block out the sun with our arrows and then the kings like, well, then we’ll fight in the shade.

09;43;21;27 – 09;43;17;02

Aaron

Or the three 303. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s the same thing. Like.

09;43;16;00 – 09;43;11;11

Jon

We will learn to thrive regardless.

09;43;11;10 – 09;43;10;28

Aaron

Yeah.

09;43;10;04 – 09;42;59;23

Jon

I mean, I think that’s a beautiful reason to push into difficulty and discomfort. We will grow. We will create value. Yep, and we will learn to thrive. Period. Yep.

09;42;58;14 – 09;42;38;22

Aaron

Yep, and don’t and don’t wish happiness and comfort on everybody all the time. You know, let sometimes the best thing you could do for even a friend is let them live in the suck, you know, like instead of reducing the level of pain, sometimes they got to have it.

09;42;38;22 – 09;42;28;19

Aaron

They got to go through that, whatever that is that they’re trying to overcome in their life. You know, don’t be the guy that reduces pain. Be the one that walks with them through it.

09;42;27;29 – 09;42;21;23

Jon

Well, because in reducing, you could spare. You could get with good intentions. Spare them the lesson that could save them, right?

09;42;21;08 – 09;42;18;19

Aaron

Yeah. Otherwise they’re going to have to go and do the lesson again.

09;42;18;17 – 09;42;16;04

Jon

Or they stay asleep forever. Right on repeat.

09;42;16;03 – 09;42;15;12

Aaron

Yep, that’s.

09;42;15;12 – 09;42;10;21

Jon

Right. And so the second path I want to go on, I saved it. Oh, I don’t forget it.

09;42;10;07 – 09;42;08;26

Aaron

So here we go. I Typekit.

09;42;08;26 – 09;42;08;13

Aaron

Brace for.

09;42;08;13 – 09;42;05;27

Jon

Impact. Yeah, I don’t have a memory much longer than a goldfish.

09;42;05;27 – 09;42;05;09

Aaron

That worked well.

09;42;04;13 – 09;41;48;04

Jon

But it was cute off something you said a mango and that we already touched on. But from a different perspective, you said I wouldn’t. I want. When you look at your kids and you ask them, do you I lead an easy challenge, free life.

09;41;47;26 – 09;41;47;16

Aaron

Hmm.

09;41;46;27 – 09;41;33;27

Jon

Right. You mentioned that when you’re like, I wouldn’t have you do something I’ve not done or am unwilling to do. And there is something you’re someone who looks decades in the future with your plans and then you bring it back to today.

09;41;33;18 – 09;41;18;29

Jon

So you have a long sighted beyond yourself thought process in the world that came to mind. When I heard that word, there is three. There’s what example my setting? What reputation do I have? Specifically to those closest to me.

09;41;18;10 – 09;41;16;23

Jon

And what legacy in my creating?

09;41;16;21 – 09;41;16;06

Aaron

Yeah.

09;41;16;00 – 09;41;03;03

Jon

And why in that? That’s what screamed out at me, and I was hoping that you could maybe play with that a little bit because I do think from my observations, we’ve not talked about this before, but that seems to be something that you spend some time thinking about.

09;41;03;03 – 09;41;02;17

Jon

Is that fair?

09;41;02;16 – 09;40;58;25

Aaron

Yeah, it is. Yeah, give me that first question again. So hit it.

09;40;58;14 – 09;40;44;12

Jon

So bottom. Yeah, bottom line. You essentially when we’re talking. Let yourself be an example to the children you asked what type of life do I live? Yep, that means you put some thought to have the courage to say that to your children.

09;40;44;03 – 09;40;43;16

Aaron

We have.

09;40;43;13 – 09;40;41;28

Jon

What legacy are you creating yet?

09;40;41;28 – 09;40;28;22

Aaron

That’s the. So the example piece like this and this is we got to be careful with this because we don’t want to let. We don’t want to make our kids feel like they’re nothing in our presence or something.

09;40;28;10 – 09;40;14;16

Aaron

You know where we’re almost showing off what we can accomplish or whatever because they can take that, you know, there’s an unhealthy there, you know? You know, dad made it so unattainable for me to do anything and just showed me, you know, all that.

09;40;14;16 – 09;40;01;10

Aaron

But this is the example piece is more like, Hey, I don’t want you to have equal. I don’t want you to have equal weight, I just want you to have equal effort in your life.

09;40;01;05 – 09;40;00;24

Aaron

Hmm.

09;40;00;08 – 09;39;50;04

Aaron

So just as I said before, math is huge for them. It’s no use for me or whatever, you know, to pursue it, river, you know, those kind of things. We look at it, we laugh, we don’t laugh at them.

09;39;49;09 – 09;39;44;27

Aaron

We recognize it’s just as difficult as me doing my the thing that’s difficult for me.

09;39;44;26 – 09;39;44;15

Aaron

Hmm.

09;39;43;17 – 09;39;22;00

Aaron

So the example piece is just, Hey, we’re both doing hard things, equal effort, difficult things. If I continue a life where I keep doing the easy things. What example, email even to them, and then I tell them to do the difficult things like that’s hypocrisy, you know, so so the challenge is almost to me, it gives you

09;39;22;00 – 09;39;14;19

Aaron

the authority to speak to your kid’s life and they know whether or not you’re a hypocrite or not. So you have to live it in order to have that.

09;39;13;20 – 09;38;57;22

Jon

Awesome. So what’s fun is we’ve just walked through how you’re serving your family right through how you’re how you’re interacting with your children, and that is one dimension of incredibly full life you lead. So for kids, beautiful, driven wife?

09;38;57;17 – 09;38;57;05

Aaron

Mm hmm.

09;38;56;28 – 09;38;35;26

Jon

And then a incredibly robust work life. In which you are pursuing all sorts of crazy objectives, both through the different entities you network through in your group. And yet despite all of that, you wanted to start something like the grit theory and engage in these conversations.

09;38;35;20 – 09;38;34;26

Jon

Yep. Why?

09;38;34;10 – 09;38;32;24

Aaron

Yep. This is kind of hard.

09;38;32;14 – 09;38;32;04

Aaron

We’ve never.

09;38;31;21 – 09;38;30;17

Aaron

We said in the first.

09;38;30;17 – 09;38;29;20

Aaron

Podcast, really.

09;38;29;12 – 09;38;21;27

Aaron

We don’t we’ve never done this before. It’s not like we, you know, we had all this talent and we had to use it like we got to create talent.

09;38;21;19 – 09;38;19;07

Aaron

To make this stuff. And it was it was very.

09;38;19;07 – 09;38;17;23

Aaron

Much a hill we had to climb, right?

09;38;17;22 – 09;38;17;14

Aaron

Yeah.

09;38;16;22 – 09;37;59;05

Aaron

And that’s OK because we’re used to that. It’s just another thing to have difficulty in. But the heart behind it is we’ve we’ve enjoyed the fruit. Of walking through some difficult things on our in our own small little way.

09;37;58;27 – 09;37;46;14

Aaron

Somebody is listening here. It’s like they have this hellish story that would just humble us. And to that, I go, That’s incredible. I want to hear those stories, right? And I can’t wait to hear those and in the years to come.

09;37;46;14 – 09;37;45;00

Aaron

But but.

09;37;43;16 – 09;37;28;29

Aaron

We are adding this because it’s so important to it, to our core belief of being able to share. What we have experienced is good things, things that are worth transferring to those around us.

09;37;23;09 – 09;37;01;25

Jon

And I think that’s where things tie around to be full circle, right? Mm hmm. The the desire is to help others, the desires to share the benefits and the value right of these different things. Why? Well, last time we talked about, you know, at least personally, I’m ten times more motivated to do something I want or desire

09;37;01;24 – 09;36;59;03

Jon

. Yes, right, than to avoid something or whatever else.

09;36;59;01 – 09;36;58;21

Aaron

Right.

09;36;57;27 – 09;36;49;05

Jon

And I think that’s at least from my experience, part of human nature. But when you can change your perspective to say, I want what I do to benefit others.

09;36;49;00 – 09;36;48;21

Aaron

Yet.

09;36;48;10 – 09;36;24;21

Jon

To make a stronger community, stronger relationship, stronger people right into. Create something positive and good, beneficial. That is also self gratifying and self-serving, and it’s almost like the circle, right? I want to have these conversations first and foremost.

09;36;24;12 – 09;36;07;10

Jon

This is Jon, because they are so enriching to me. They’re so fun. You know, for myself, I mean, just bottom line up front. I love this. Yeah, I would do it without the mix. But this gives me an excuse to sit down with you and excuse to sit down with others.

09;36;07;09 – 09;35;51;15

Jon

Yup. To then be able to take that self-centered desire and to be able to share it with anyone who finds value in this. Yeah, that is what takes us from something that’s cool, you know, like a coffee time or a glass of whiskey time to enact of.

09;35;50;14 – 09;35;45;26

Jon

Self-serving service to others. Mm-Hmm. I don’t. Do you think there’s something wrong with that?

09;35;44;03 – 09;35;27;02

Aaron

That it was so funny, Jon, is if we’re really honest with ourselves, this is what we’re doing right now is very selfish. But if our selfishness leads to a. To helping another person grow and enrich their lives, and hey, that’s OK.

09;35;26;17 – 09;35;24;14

Aaron

You know, I’ll take that selfishness. You know, I.

09;35;23;29 – 09;35;23;24

Aaron

I.

09;35;23;24 – 09;35;04;11

Aaron

Think. There’s nothing that’s truly altruistic, it’s just and some level you have a desire inside of you to accomplish or to help that person, and so that’s a self-serving thing, but that’s OK because the fruit of that selfishness is shared with other people.

09;35;04;05 – 09;35;03;01

Jon

Yeah, the benefit of it.

09;35;03;01 – 09;34;51;05

Aaron

Yeah. So it’s kind of a strange way. It sounds bad to say, yeah, I do selfish things or I do such things because I want to repeat them. But that is that make sure I just make sure it’s a noble, selfish pursuit, right?

09;34;51;00 – 09;34;48;01

Jon

Yeah, something that still can help someone else as it’s serving me as well.

09;34;47;29 – 09;34;47;17

Aaron

Right.

09;34;47;12 – 09;34;44;24

Jon

And the reason I’m pulling on this, oh, here we go.

09;34;44;24 – 09;34;44;17

Aaron

OK?

09;34;44;15 – 09;34;33;06

Jon

Well, to me, I think it grounds it in reality, right? Like if I had no idea about any of these types of topics and I listened to this for the first time, I would feel. And I’m just going through my own stuff.

09;34;32;22 – 09;34;19;13

Jon

I don’t think I could connect to a lot of this. It’s like I’m trying just to survive. I can’t think about helping someone else. Hmm. Right. And I think this grounds it in. That’s OK. What can you do that’s going to make you better?

09;34;18;15 – 09;34;01;27

Jon

So that by nature of being better, you have more to be able to provide. Yep. In existence. Right. And at some point, the transformation will go from these things I’m doing to survive, to care for myself, to get stronger, to get better.

09;34;01;25 – 09;33;47;24

Jon

Mm-Hmm. I’m going to have an abundance. Yeah, that can start to positively affect those around me. It starts at the choices, the fatalities, all that stuff. But it kind of I think it ties the start point to some of the fun things that we’re talking about.

09;33;47;23 – 09;33;34;07

Jon

Mm-Hmm. That I think when hope are encouraging and are exciting, right? But again, it’s OK. You know that right now, the only reason I want to work out is because I don’t want to look a certain way or have a certain health issue.

09;33;33;12 – 09;33;22;01

Jon

Because at some point, if you keep making healthy choices to become healthy, your energy level should be improved. You have a higher likelihood of living longer. Mm-Hmm. What are the outputs of that new you going to be? Mm hmm.

09;33;21;16 – 09;33;18;07

Jon

You’re going to continue. Yeah. More like looking for ways to pull yourself out. Yeah.

09;33;18;07 – 09;33;05;25

Aaron

Well, why the heck live longer if you’re not going to do something with it, right? You know, it’s it’s like, hurry up and die if that’s you know your goal. But if you if you’re trying to live longer, you’re making these decisions to do so.

09;33;05;16 – 09;32;59;06

Aaron

It ought to be because you’re you want to have more time to invest in people. That’s a noble pursuit.

09;32;58;26 – 09;32;49;00

Jon

I think it grows to that. Yeah. And I think that’s part of it. Yep, right. Like at least the thing I just want to touch on for us is, yep, I think that is what it can become. Yes, it can start with.

09;32;48;26 – 09;32;36;07

Jon

I just want to have a certain level of health or like, look a certain way or be able to do a certain thing. Right, right. But if you keep doing that, the natural progression, it seems, is to how can this now benefit?

09;32;36;06 – 09;32;24;01

Jon

Yeah, my loved one. How can this now benefit this person I care about or want, help or encourage the stranger? Right? Yeah. And it becomes altruistic. It can do that a lot earlier. Yeah. Then I think some may.

09;32;23;16 – 09;32;20;13

Jon

Some may think so. I just thought that might tie it in a little bit. Yeah.

09;32;19;17 – 09;32;03;29

Aaron

I like that. I think that’s a great. Yeah. You’ve now made it. You’ve made it. You’ve made it prettier than what it starts to be. Yeah, it’s so funny. Yeah, these are such like almost this dirty beginnings like, Oh, that’s stupid.

09;32;03;29 – 09;31;57;10

Aaron

That’s why you started it. It’s like, Yeah, but you know, I grew up, yeah, I I learned some things along this journey, right.

09;31;57;03 – 09;31;51;28

Jon

When it’s important to show the journey because otherwise it just gets lost in the crowds and it’s less attainable.

09;31;51;18 – 09;31;51;10

Aaron

Yeah.

09;31;51;10 – 09;31;34;08

Jon

And I know I’ve been so overwhelmed by my friend, my friends and family and the people who I have loose connections with, who have reached out from our first episode. And they think it’s been so, you know, rejuvenating things like that.

09;31;34;07 – 09;31;20;17

Jon

Just it’s been genuine. Right? And yeah, I think that’s one of the things that we cling to, right? It’s like, yet this is where we are. It sounds cool, and it may be shiny right now, but it was born out of mud and blood.

09;31;20;01 – 09;31;12;21

Jon

Mm hmm. It was. It was terribly ugly. And there are still times that we we walk through things that are disgusting.

09;31;12;15 – 09;31;10;26

Aaron

We bad. Yeah. Yeah.

09;31;10;13 – 09;30;54;25

Aaron

All the way. And we have I’m just and I want to echo that to Jon. Just that gratitude for for those around us, because that’s and what what amazing currency that is in our life that, hey, we’re going to try this thing and it’s really difficult.

09;30;54;25 – 09;30;33;13

Aaron

And then in there, the people, I’ve said that the things I’ve read, I’m like, Man, these people are like, these are just like little compliments or or even corrections or even to call them, they’re they’re just people that you could they they really do on some of they’re expressing care and love for them, for what you’re trying

09;30;33;13 – 09;30;25;18

Aaron

to accomplish. It’s cool. It’s like they’re joining you on the run, you know, hey, you can do it, you can do it. This is hard. You can do it. Hey, you know, I love it.

09;30;25;04 – 09;30;12;25

Jon

What do you love it to what you just said? Like, it’s like they’re joining one of us on a run or something. Yeah, that’s what this is. It’s a journey. Absolutely. These conversations are journey, and our hope is to journey with others.

09;30;12;05 – 09;30;06;21

Jon

We want to go on this adventure with anyone who would care to journey with us, right? Come on.

09;30;06;08 – 09;30;05;27

Aaron

You know.

09;30;04;27 – 09;29;46;23

Jon

Let’s do it right. And it’s cool. You said that because I do think that’s central to our desire. It’s like the reason we went through all this effort, the reason we were ripping our hair out before we recorded this and to try and improve the audio for everyone was because we want it to be an invitation for

09;29;46;23 – 09;29;40;06

Jon

others to strive, to climb, to become indomitable, to become, to be extraordinary, to become weight makers, right?

09;29;40;05 – 09;29;39;22

Aaron

Yes.

09;29;39;10 – 09;29;24;06

Jon

And with that, you have to have targets. So mud and blood, right? I’m curious when was when is the most recent time that you were near quitting on something significantly important in your life? And why did you not?

09;29;23;18 – 09;29;23;04

Aaron

Yeah.

09;29;20;11 – 09;28;57;25

Aaron

I’ve had to deal with all kinds of stuff, I mean. There there are times in my work, there are times in my parenting where I want to disengage, there are certainly times and in my marriage. And it’s not there’s a voice, but it’s not one I take seriously of quitting on any of those things, right?

09;28;57;24 – 09;28;55;10

Aaron

But it is absolutely there. Like, you could quit.

09;28;54;24 – 09;28;54;13

Aaron

You could.

09;28;53;21 – 09;28;27;22

Aaron

You could stop lifting this thing. That’s killing you, right? And if that. If I listen to that and choose what’s comfortable, there will be consequence that is far greater than the difficulty of going through it. And so, yeah, I’ve come to the voice has gotten too loud at times and some of those areas in and I’m going

09;28;27;17 – 09;28;08;26

Aaron

. Can I do this? And there’s something so much bigger than me that needs to be my teacher so I can get through it. And so, yeah, I’m happy to say I haven’t quit anything that is truly epically important to me.

09;28;07;29 – 09;27;55;02

Aaron

But to answer your question, I think there have been times when I’ve almost quit and then when, when, when you almost quit at something and you’ve gone down this journey even with like personal injury with stuff too, you have to fight back.

09;27;54;27 – 09;27;47;06

Aaron

You have to decide. I can’t OK. If I keep doing what I have been doing, I’m going to continue to think I got to quit at this.

09;27;46;28 – 09;27;46;19

Aaron

Yeah.

09;27;46;03 – 09;27;33;23

Aaron

But if I if I let a new voice in like, OK, I got to, let’s use a physical thing I got. I need someone to speak into this who’s who’s been down this road. They could tell me how to to get healed up, to get stronger here.

09;27;33;00 – 09;27;20;03

Aaron

I need other people who. Have have almost failed at this. And they could tell me how they got through it. I need people to encourage me what it looks like, like, Hey, this is what when you get healthy, this is what it’s going to look like.

09;27;20;03 – 09;27;14;04

Aaron

And that and that that also like, Oh man, that’s what I want. I really want that. If you quit, you won’t ever get it, though.

09;27;14;00 – 09;27;13;20

Aaron

Mm hmm.

09;27;12;11 – 09;27;06;09

Aaron

Those kind of things just change your vector. And you can go a little further.

09;27;04;29 – 09;26;49;14

Jon

It reminds me of what we talked about the last time, if you want to go fast alone. Yeah, if you want to go far, go together, yes. In an African proverb and it’s so true that we’re we where one may fall down to you can stand up and yeah, the community.

09;26;49;14 – 09;26;32;06

Jon

You surround yourself. Yeah, right? one more cliché thing birds of a feather flock together. The people you surround yourself. The influences you seek out can make or break that I’m hanging on by a nail about to fail something important.

09;26;32;02 – 09;26;19;29

Aaron

You cannot even even entertain a second with someone who’s a quitter when you’re about to quit yourself. That’s because I welcome you. They will. Oh course, you’re feeling bad. Oh, that’s yeah.

09;26;19;22 – 09;26;17;26

Aaron

Stop. Yeah, you should stop.

09;26;17;25 – 09;26;07;13

Aaron

And of course, that’s because they’re accustomed to quitting. And you just can’t hang out with those people, really, I don’t like hanging out with people anyway, but especially when you’re injured in.

09;26;07;13 – 09;26;06;08

Aaron

Week and week.

09;26;05;27 – 09;25;57;09

Jon

Not in like a week, like when you’re at a place without your strength. Right, right. Like, it’s late. You’re tired, your hunger. You’re wet, you’re cold.

09;25;56;21 – 09;25;44;26

Aaron

That is such a lucid that is such a lucid decision. You have to make, though if you can’t, if the darkness is around, you have someone to help you come to that conclusion. But, you know, sometimes you just need.

09;25;43;25 – 09;25;41;16

Aaron

The weight of a friend who doesn’t quit.

09;25;40;22 – 09;25;38;08

Aaron

Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

09;25;37;23 – 09;25;21;29

Jon

OK, I even had a the physical one last week, right? Yeah. Like, I was just it was bad, but it was a combination of the community, those around right and a lot of contemplation going to battle with myself and my maker and all those things.

09;25;21;28 – 09;25;19;02

Jon

Right? And realizing what the outcome needed to be.

09;25;18;22 – 09;25;18;08

Aaron

Hmm.

09;25;17;21 – 09;25;13;17

Jon

And now we’re kind of celebrating the benefits of not having quit this last week.

09;25;13;14 – 09;25;12;03

Aaron

Yeah, right. Yeah.

09;25;11;21 – 09;25;09;25

Aaron

Cut a second win of sorts, right?

09;25;09;23 – 09;24;56;01

Jon

Yeah. The injuries are healing. Yeah, things are improving. So it’s interesting because the night always appears to be darkest before the dawn. Hmm. And it seems to me that when we experience the moments of near quit and persevere.

09;24;55;29 – 09;24;55;20

Aaron

Yeah.

09;24;54;24 – 09;24;44;11

Jon

This it’s like the dance that the sun starts to rise. Yeah, it’s like I didn’t think I could make it through today. And now I’m starting to see the light. And now it’s daytime again. Yeah, it’s it’s a beautiful day.

09;24;44;11 – 09;24;41;03

Jon

Yeah, it’s like this exciting new wind. Like you said.

09;24;41;03 – 09;24;30;11

Aaron

It’s absolutely and you can’t. You can’t experience that unless you go through that, as you say, the darkest of night and in all that is is the greatest amount of difficulty you can handle.

09;24;29;23 – 09;24;23;29

Jon

So that’s the perfect segue way to a quote from you last week.

09;24;23;15 – 09;24;23;01

Aaron

All right.

09;24;22;16 – 09;24;17;15

Aaron

It’s OK if you do it. If I do it, it’s you know. Yeah. Narcissistic or pretentious or something. Go ahead.

09;24;17;12 – 09;24;15;16

Jon

Yeah, I can quote anyone I want.

09;24;15;15 – 09;24;14;04

Aaron

Yeah. As long as it’s not so.

09;24;13;01 – 09;24;11;24

Aaron

Aaron Robinson says.

09;24;11;11 – 09;23;54;23

Jon

So. So we’re plodding along. Yeah, I’m deep. In my mind, because of some injuries and stuff, right, this is before turning that corner. Right, right. And we’re we’re pushing into a strong headwind. You know, it’s quiet and this is where it’s so not about the physical, right?

09;23;54;10 – 09;23;36;12

Jon

It’s the mental. Emotional, spiritual, whatever you want to call it, benefits of doing these challenging things that allow us to point to others more, right? And here’s an example you’re out there and you poured into me and it was just a fun, little refreshing reminder of you said good.

09;23;35;22 – 09;23;22;08

Jon

I was like, Man, I’m hurting. This is this. We have to adjust a little bit. So I don’t like tear this ligament. If you don’t mind, you’re like, No, that’s fine. Hammer plodding along in Yashraj DNA as I were pushing, but I’m I’m in pain.

09;23;22;08 – 09;23;08;05

Jon

This is hard. And you said good. That means you actually set a goal, Jon. That’s hard enough to push you to your limit. Why in the world do you think that’s good? And it was awesome.

09;23;07;09 – 09;23;05;19

Aaron

So that’s fine.

09;23;05;19 – 09;22;56;13

Aaron

Oh, I’m glad. I’m glad that came out. You know, it’s so funny. Some of those things that come out of you when you’re I wouldn’t just say that anyway, but it’s one when the need arises out of a friend.

09;22;56;13 – 09;22;52;23

Aaron

You know you sometimes you dig deep. Yeah, what am I going to say to them? You know, whatever.

09;22;52;06 – 09;22;51;11

Aaron

But now.

09;22;51;11 – 09;22;36;11

Aaron

I’m glad. I’m glad that encouraged. But because I know the other side of difficulty is joy. Yeah, right? You know that you may not want to tell yourself that when you’re going through it, because you know the exit voices coming up, right?

09;22;36;10 – 09;22;28;19

Aaron

I get out of here, get out here as hard as hard. But the person who’s healthy, who’s next to you, who’s caught their breath said, You’re going to.

09;22;28;19 – 09;22;28;01

Aaron

Be fine.

09;22;28;00 – 09;22;16;22

Aaron

Man, you’re going to get, I know you can do this. I believe in you. And if you don’t believe me, I’m going to believe in you. Like, you know, borrow my belief, but I want you to have a hard time.

09;22;15;25 – 09;22;15;03

Aaron

You know, if you.

09;22;14;19 – 09;22;14;16

Aaron

If.

09;22;14;16 – 09;22;07;27

Aaron

You’re doing something easy for you, like, well, good is that why would I encourage you to do easy things? Yeah. As a friend.

09;22;07;10 – 09;22;05;19

Jon

And that’s where difficult is opportunity, right?

09;22;05;06 – 09;22;04;24

Aaron

Yeah.

09;22;03;26 – 09;21;50;03

Aaron

That’s that’s you know, Jon, if you want to define a good friend, ask yourself, Do your friends make you do difficult things? Do they challenge you? Because if they don’t, I would just I’d question whether that’s really a good friend.

09;21;50;01 – 09;21;48;18

Jon

Like positive, difficult things.

09;21;48;17 – 09;21;40;15

Aaron

Yeah, if they’re just enabling you to do the same thing over and over again until eternity. I don’t know if those are the kind of friends I you.

09;21;40;11 – 09;21;36;28

Jon

But yeah, let’s journey forward together. Yeah, right.

09;21;36;28 – 09;21;36;17

Aaron

Yeah.

09;21;36;01 – 09;21;28;24

Jon

In there, I feel compelled to do a quick 30 minute toss out on the friendship thing.

09;21;28;23 – 09;21;28;13

Aaron

Yeah.

09;21;28;02 – 09;21;20;07

Jon

I’ve received. It’s actually been really cool. A lot of calls. Last time we talked about, you know, like the top five or whatever and watering the lawn.

09;21;19;20 – 09;21;18;07

Aaron

The top five friends, like the.

09;21;18;07 – 09;21;05;19

Jon

Friends who have cats who have naturally become close. Right? Well, and then we very quickly touched on. But then there’s also those friends who like are permanently in that place. That life is separated for now, but you pick up the phone, you’re picking right back up.

09;21;05;12 – 09;21;04;00

Jon

Yeah, it’s only a matter of.

09;21;03;08 – 09;21;02;24

Aaron

Current.

09;21;02;01 – 09;20;45;24

Jon

Life circumstances in typically geographic dislocation that keep us from being close on a more intimate daily basis, right? But we pick up the phone. We’re good to go. We walk through that really quickly. We’ve had quite a few friends in that category who have not spoken to you in a couple of months.

09;20;45;12 – 09;20;27;21

Jon

Columbia. Hey. I’m here watering the lawn guy or so am I number six? It’s been hilarious, it’s been nice because we’re going to hear from a bunch of dudes, as I know you were. Do you remember that one little statement, guys like you and I were talking to that group, you just picked the phone up?

09;20;27;19 – 09;20;20;28

Jon

No, no. I don’t remember that as like, Oh, well, in my mind, you’re there, but I’m glad you called and felt convicted and bad for not talking to me.

09;20;20;19 – 09;20;17;24

Aaron

Yes, I love it.

09;20;17;10 – 09;20;16;11

Aaron

I didn’t make it easy on.

09;20;16;11 – 09;20;14;05

Aaron

Him at all. I love it. Yeah. So we.

09;20;13;27 – 09;19;56;28

Aaron

Jon, I would say to one of the lessons we got to learn as men and women, both when we’re going through a difficult thing. Do not be ashamed of it. Embrace it as your friend. Be a be evangelistic about it.

09;19;56;12 – 09;19;51;11

Aaron

Hey, I’m going through this really difficult thing, and this is what I’m doing to go through that difficulty.

09;19;51;10 – 09;19;43;04

Jon

So does that mean like b wow must be inspirational about it? Motivate people to talk with them? Yeah.

09;19;43;04 – 09;19;29;19

Aaron

If I if I see one more smiling, happy family picture, you know that threat, you know what’s going on in between those smiles, you know? You know, though, that’s a relief. Most of life is pretty, pretty hard. You know, it leads to.

09;19;29;19 – 09;19;29;08

Aaron

Joy.

09;19;28;29 – 09;19;17;23

Aaron

But I would just love, you know, I love the kind of friendship that says, Hey, I’m going through marriage counseling right now. It’s really hard. And that’s it. That’s so hard to say anyway. Like counseling, you know what’s wrong with you or whatever?

09;19;17;22 – 09;19;04;02

Aaron

What’s you know, you guys? Is your marriage can fall apart. It’s like, No, because I’m facing the challenge and the friend should say it should the the conversation to be. I’m going to counsel in the front as good.

09;19;03;24 – 09;18;57;09

Aaron

Just like you said, you good. I’m glad you’re fighting for something and going through a difficult time.

09;18;56;00 – 09;18;38;21

Jon

And that’s that’s the point. Yeah, that’s the point, I think, from observing you, so this is a question. Yeah. The reason you want to do this podcast, the reason you want to be an example to your children in an, you know, a co adventure with your friends is because.

09;18;37;02 – 09;18;29;11

Jon

You want to be able to encourage him through the bad by saying, good, this is an opportunity. Yeah. And then have that reciprocated as necessary also?

09;18;28;27 – 09;18;28;20

Aaron

Yeah.

09;18;27;28 – 09;18;19;02

Aaron

Absolutely. I need it. That’s that’s a selfish thing. I need it. Altruistically, I want other peoples to have the people to have it to. Yeah.

09;18;18;01 – 09;18;02;21

Jon

And that’s a point of strength in each other, right? You mentioned what’s going on between the smiles, well, if you’re friends with someone, you know the chaos that’s behind that picture and you’re not doing anything as their friend to help them face that and fix it?

09;18;01;29 – 09;17;50;06

Jon

Yeah. Well, that’s a bummer. Yeah, you’re missing the opportunity, especially because that means you’re cultivating relationships that if you’re messed up, they’re not going to do it for you. More like, right? What an opportunity.

09;17;50;01 – 09;17;47;11

Aaron

That’s a that’s a horrible thing to hear.

09;17;46;27 – 09;17;46;05

Aaron

Right now, like.

09;17;45;26 – 09;17;39;10

Aaron

For someone out there or, you know, even just to be sober minded about it, like, am I that guy? Am I doing that? You know?

09;17;38;07 – 09;17;37;27

Aaron

Well.

09;17;37;10 – 09;17;36;13

Jon

And it’s uncomfortable.

09;17;36;01 – 09;17;35;23

Aaron

Yeah.

09;17;35;23 – 09;17;20;29

Jon

In a minute ago you had said, you’re talking about looking for the alt right. What’s difficult? That’s been a thread of this conversation. Like, what’s? It’s difficult. We’re going to look for the outs. Hmm. You know, what’s interesting is, how else do you equip yourself because you put yourself one with the people you surround yourself with?

09;17;20;19 – 09;17;08;01

Jon

But given time, your mind and body will outmaneuver your will to do the hard right thing every single time. Mm hmm. Right? Mm hmm. So how do you, when you’re alone, safeguard from that?

09;17;07;25 – 09;17;07;15

Aaron

Mm.

09;17;04;12 – 09;16;49;27

Aaron

We work out early in the morning. Because I’m concerned I won’t do it at 5:00. Right, you got to put first things first, you got to start your day, you got to not hit the snooze alarm three times a.

09;16;49;09 – 09;16;49;04

Aaron

Year.

09;16;49;04 – 09;16;28;27

Aaron

To start right away with. I’m choosing today to do difficult things to to make decisions that. I know will lead to healthy outcomes. And I know they will, and I’m encouraged by that, I know if I make this decision, it will have consequence in my life a healthy consequence.

09;16;27;12 – 09;16;22;25

Aaron

And conversely, if I say no, I’m going have to deal with the unhealthy consequence.

09;16;22;04 – 09;16;12;05

Jon

So if I’m hearing you correctly, yeah, you’re saying you stop thinking in the moment of execution. I’m going to do it so early that I just have to do it before I think I’m totally out of it.

09;16;12;01 – 09;16;02;19

Aaron

This is going to go down. Yeah, exactly. Because that’s it, right? You know, the voice throughout the day gets louder. You get you get that there’s more and more excuses, but man, in the morning, it’s hard to make those excuses.

09;16;02;19 – 09;15;55;28

Aaron

And I say if as long as you get out of bed, you do that, get up. So I’m up, let’s go do it.

09;15;55;19 – 09;15;49;16

Jon

And that’s another area, too, like if you lie in bed and think about getting up, no, you will lose that. Don’t do.

09;15;49;16 – 09;15;48;18

Aaron

That right?

09;15;48;12 – 09;15;46;19

Aaron

Let don’t have a conversation with your mind.

09;15;46;19 – 09;15;32;21

Jon

It’s like sometimes you have to challenge yourself. And it’s interesting because in the same way you pick your friends, you have to pick your voice. You allow to speak in when have your own mind. It is 4:30 in the morning or five or six or whatever is hard for you.

09;15;32;06 – 09;15;23;11

Jon

It’s like, you know, you just laying there like, Oh, I just lay here for five more minutes. No, you’ve lost because you may get up in five minutes, but it’s probably going to be three hours.

09;15;22;11 – 09;15;20;02

Aaron

Right? So just get up, you know, of.

09;15;20;02 – 09;15;16;18

Aaron

Course it’s difficult. Yeah, of course. This is hard to get up at this time.

09;15;15;14 – 09;15;13;04

Aaron

Good. Yeah. And get up.

09;15;11;13 – 09;15;02;00

Jon

It’s like I quite literally have to think like, don’t think, don’t think to think that. I think as I’m getting like moving like the alarms. Okay, just move. Just gather room. I just get to the other room, just get far enough away from the bed.

09;15;01;13 – 09;14;56;21

Jon

But I can’t think an excuse into how I can reprioritize tasks to get back in.

09;14;56;13 – 09;14;47;09

Aaron

Yes, my my wife, I don’t know. She still does this. But for time she had, she’d put the phone across the room, the alarm phone across the room. I was like, Brilliant.

09;14;46;26 – 09;14;46;19

Aaron

Yeah.

09;14;46;13 – 09;14;35;26

Aaron

Got to get up to turn it off. So make it easy. That’s it. That’s another conversation because they make it easy. If you want to repeat something, just make it easy to repeat it.

09;14;35;16 – 09;14;34;23

Aaron

So what’s that look like?

09;14;33;25 – 09;14;17;13

Aaron

Yeah. Well, I’m like, That’s an example of is my wife. It’s like, it’s easy. To walk across the room to turn off an alarm if you want the sound to turn off, right? Yeah, yeah, you made it easy, but now you’re up, you’ve kind of tricked yourself into winning.

09;14;16;26 – 09;14;03;27

Aaron

You know you want to eat better. Don’t buy chips and put them in the pantry. Keep them at the store where you won’t drive to go. Get them right. Yeah, having a great friend makes it more. It makes it more difficult to do the bad things.

09;14;03;19 – 09;14;03;09

Aaron

Mm-Hmm.

09;14;02;24 – 09;14;01;06

Aaron

It makes it easier to get things.

09;14;00;07 – 09;13;47;24

Jon

So lower or raise the barrier, depending on what you need. Yes. For example, raise the barrier to get the chips, keep you in the store. Yeah. Lower the barrier of difficulty to get out bed. Put the phone on the other side of the room.

09;13;46;08 – 09;13;44;07

Jon

Yeah, that makes sense to me. Also do the same thing.

09;13;43;05 – 09;13;42;27

Aaron

Yeah.

09;13;42;22 – 09;13;38;01

Aaron

You don’t have to make it. Max difficulty. It’s going to be difficult on some level.

09;13;37;24 – 09;13;37;14

Aaron

But you don’t.

09;13;37;14 – 09;13;20;02

Aaron

Have to make it hard on yourself. I quit. Why do that to yourself? You know, these giant lists of resolutions people get, don’t do that to yourself like you’re not going to do it. Instead, why don’t you kind of why don’t you create a smaller list of things that you’ll change your habits to make it easier on

09;13;20;02 – 09;13;18;04

Aaron

yourself in order to accomplish that?

09;13;16;29 – 09;12;51;19

Jon

Well, awesome. I feel like we’ve been able to thoroughly cover a lot of ground. And I’m I’m curious, you know, as we transition to. Closing out today’s time together. What? Goal or hope? Do you have? For this venture being, you know, the great theory over the coming.

09;12;50;14 – 09;12;50;01

Jon

Year.

09;12;48;06 – 09;12;37;27

Aaron

Man, it’s already starting to happen, Jon, like when you get the when you get some feedback from people saying, Hey, this is what I specifically heard that changed my mindset for the day. That’s a win, right?

09;12;37;26 – 09;12;37;15

Aaron

Mm-Hmm.

09;12;36;24 – 09;12;29;21

Aaron

It makes me feel like we’re fighting with people like we’re part of their difficulty, and I think that’s great. I just feel like a friend in that moment.

09;12;29;13 – 09;12;29;05

Aaron

Hmm.

09;12;27;10 – 09;12;17;14

Aaron

To get more and more of those, this can be a lot of fun and that conversational way where they said, Hey, what about this? Or you know what I’m reading? Oh wow, that affects me. That’s a that’s just rich.

09;12;16;12 – 09;12;14;19

Aaron

Wisdom growing life.

09;12;14;12 – 09;12;14;01

Aaron

Mm-Hmm.

09;12;12;12 – 09;11;59;26

Aaron

So in that sense, it is already kind of happening, I’m not looking down there like I’m happy about today. This is great. It’ll be bigger and the more of it in the future, I’m sure.

09;11;59;04 – 09;11;55;22

Jon

So that was a great answer and also a complete non-answer at the same time.

09;11;55;04 – 09;11;53;10

Aaron

Do you want a more specific.

09;11;52;19 – 09;11;51;18

Aaron

Metric on that or?

09;11;51;16 – 09;11;36;18

Jon

Well, because I do agree I’m blown away. Humbled in shock still at no. How many people have reached out on this right? It’s really been humbling, and I’ve shared every single one of them with you. So it’s been cool.

09;11;36;17 – 09;11;28;16

Jon

It’s just been so bizarre. I feel like I’m in a dream somewhere. But that being said, yeah, what do you want to do in a year? We just talked about crazy goals.

09;11;28;16 – 09;11;28;03

Aaron

Yeah.

09;11;28;01 – 09;11;17;12

Aaron

What we find, I’m hoping to get some pretty incredible story. I think there’s people out there I haven’t met yet. That’s what I’m really looking forward to because I know the stories of my own friendships.

09;11;16;27 – 09;11;16;20

Aaron

More.

09;11;16;20 – 09;10;57;29

Aaron

Or less. But, you know, I know there’s just some things that are just going to level us like, Whoa. You know, such incredible overcoming that’s out there, somebody out there is listening right now, it’s like they got a burning story in them.

09;10;57;25 – 09;10;49;21

Aaron

They want to share with everybody here. I want to meet those people and I want them that to affect my next 40 years, whatever, whatever I get.

09;10;48;20 – 09;10;32;03

Jon

I agree with you. I think there’s going to be quite a few of these that it’s you and me topping through, you know, talking through different topics or what have you. Yeah. But I am so excited to use this as a platform to bring on and honor and hear other people’s stories and share them and hear them

09;10;32;03 – 09;10;30;11

Jon

for myself. We have to be amazing.

09;10;30;11 – 09;10;23;00

Aaron

We have too much dishonor out there happening. Yeah, I would really like to elevate those people who just have not gotten the fair airtime that they need to get.

09;10;22;16 – 09;10;14;28

Jon

For some truly inspirational stories of how they made away through insurmountable odds. Yep, right in our are winning.

09;10;14;20 – 09;10;14;01

Aaron

Absolutely.

09;10;13;05 – 09;10;12;03

Jon

Of course, about we end up with that.

09;10;10;27 – 09;10;09;02

Aaron

I don’t want to mess it up. So let’s do it and.

09;10;08;14 – 09;10;06;18

Jon

We’ll take care of one. Thank you for listening in.

09;10;06;04 – 09;10;05;14

Aaron

Thank you, guys.